[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[voksic]

The Macan EV is significantly more expensive than the ICE version.

If they were closer in price, the Macan EV might be an easier sell.

New ICE Macan (speculating here), which, if it was to be released, will be just a refresh of existing one and it will be more expensive than the cureent ICE. ICE version is discontinued mostly because of outdated hardware platform. A refresh will come with more expensive platform. Will it match the EV price? Probably not, but it will go over the existing ICE price.

 

[whitex]

The Macan EV is significantly more expensive than the ICE version.

If they were closer in price, the Macan EV might be an easier sell.

I don't see it. In the US Macan 4 starts at $78,800, a comparable, though slightly less powerful ICE Macan S starts at $76,200. So the difference is $2,400. Is that significant on an $76K car? If you are willing to go 2WD and forego 20hp (out of 375) but still have better torque, the base Macan EV will actually be cheaper by $900. Macan EV also has way more modern tech in it.

Of course, if we're talking who want the cheapest possible SUV with a Porsche badge, ICE Macan has a much less powerful, lower spec version not available on Macan EV at $63,100 vs. cheapest Macan EV at $75,300. There the difference is $12,200, which becomes more significant (almost 20% over), but you get lower spec, older tech car in the ICE version. Then there may be people who value the letters after the model name as a status symbol, they could just buy Macan 4S EV, spend the $5,900 in saved money on some GTS-like esthetic features and a GTS badge, and still have a faster, more powerful car with Porsche badge for same or less money.

So if Porsche sells mostly base Macan ICE, then I see why EVs are a harder sell, but if they are selling higher trim Macans, Macan EV is not much more expensive (or even cheaper). I think the bigger obstacle might be people being apprehensive about EVs in general, something new to them, perhaps buying into bunch of FUD on the internet how they catch on fire and/or explode, or watching news coverage of some DC charger during thanksgiving with multi hour waits, or looking at comparisons of how many gas stations are out there vs. DC charging stations (without even mentioning that that was an exception situation, and that EVs can fill up at home, or at hotels, and almost never see an outside charger).

 

[D00notD00d]

* The Atlantic off the west coast of Ireland has some of the largest wind generation potential in the world. Already, during very windy days, Ireland has generated 100% of its energy requirement from wind. Though of course it is still unreliable until more offshore wind farms have been developed.

Live view of generation sources for the island of Ireland (both Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland) as – despite Brexit – acts as a single electricity market:

https://www.smartgriddashboard.com/all/

Equivalent for GB, including historical data:
https://grid.iamkate.com/

 

[tigerbalm]

ICE version is discontinued mostly because of outdated hardware platform.

The main reason the combustion Macan is discontinued in the European Union is because it fails to meet modern cyber security standards. The specifics – I'll admit – I have not read or studied.

 

[tigerbalm]

Equivalent for GB, including historical data:
https://grid.iamkate.com/

Such a bigger scale to Ireland!

Nearly all of our refined petroleum and gas products come directly from the UK. Unrefined products come from the US, Netherlands and indirectly from Norway.

Despite the madness of Brexit – we're grateful that the UK remains a reliable and rule-based trading partner. Though having only a similar population to the West Midlands, we're the UK's fifth largest market and purchaser of UK goods and services.

Ireland imports between 50% and 75% of its crude oil requirements directly from the US – a trading partnership we really value – current US policies seem determined to make it an unpredictable and unreliable partner.

Somewhat unrelated – but I know a lot of UK folks aren't aware – is there a more remarkable bit of UK Legislation than the "1949 Ireland Act" section 2(1) ?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/12-13-14/41/enacted

This is the thing that was "hidden" behind the EU for decades before Brexit made it relevant again. If you ever wondered why Irish people can just move to the UK and start voting or the same with British citizens in Ireland – this is why.

Since 1949, the UK – while acknowledging that the Republic of Ireland is its own country – it is still not a "foreign country". Only politics could square that circle!

But if you happen to work for MI5 or MI6 (SIS) and are wondering why it's full of Irish people working in the UK security services – it's because they are simultaneously not British but also not foreign!

Which brings me to the real question: how many James Bond's will admit to driving a Taycan over an Aston Martin? I know at least one!

 

[kempez]

I've been seriously looking at my next vehicle, in advance of December when my Taycan's PCP is due. I'm not particularly worried about how much I've 'lost' on the car, it's irrelevant. I'd *possibly* go back in time if I were to do it again and go the HP option instead...maybe.

However, kind of to the point of this thread - speccing a Taycan CT4S (which is where I'd be for the next one), is now obviously very expensive. Even making a few savings on a spec, I am at £110k.

So I look at the finance on this, any option and the APR is silly high.

Yes it's Porsche but look around and at the end of the day it's a really bad rip-off. I am not buying outright because I simply don't want to with this type of car. This applies to Macan EV of as well course. Price ends up high and APR is stupid.

So basically any other manufacturer becomes much more attractive. Polestar's rates and especially business leasing just looks much more attractive and the cars are really nice.

I do not think Porche's model is going to work with EV's

I also think VW is far too slow. Their new ID Golf GTI is incoming....in 2030! Talk about moving slowly.

 

[Zcd1]

I don't see it.

Which part don't you see?

Model for model, the Macan Electric is $12-$15K more expensive than the ICE Macan:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=402032549&veh2=402048827&veh3=402032546&veh4=402048830

That's ~20% of the purchase price, which is significant difference to many buyers...

 

[whitex]

Which part don't you see?

Model for model, the Macan Electric is $12-$15K more expensive than the ICE Macan:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=402032549&veh2=402048827&veh3=402032546&veh4=402048830

That's ~20% of the purchase price, which is significant difference to many buyers...

Read beyond the first sentence of my post. The main point is that the Macan EV offering starts with higher specs, and the 12K or 20% is the comparison of base models (again, mentioned further down in my post). It would like saying Taycan Sport Turismo is $50K or 50% more expensive than Taycan sedan, because in the US the cheapest trim sedan is $100,300 and cheapest trim Sport Turismo is $150,700. This kind of comparison reminds of stories written by people (or maybe AI) using similar comparisons, claiming how Taycans are selling well above MSRP because they compared the base MSRP of each trim vs. average selling price of each trim - since most Taycans are not base with no options at all, those options raise the MSRP of the car, but the comparisons of selling price are compared against base MSRP. So a loaded Taycan sedan with MSRP of $150K which sold for $144K (4% discount) would actually be considered as sold 44% above MSRP, so good material for a headline.

 

[Zcd1]

Read beyond the first sentence of my post. The main point is that the Macan EV offering starts with higher specs, and the 12K or 20% is the comparison of base models

Not really true, because there’s no 2WD ICE Macan, unlike the base Macan EV RWD.

 

[Wivenhoe]

I think one of the main reasons Porsche and German manufacturers offer so many options is because very few would buy a base car but forecast residuals % are compared against the base. Therefore a car actually bought for say $ 120k with a ‘base’ price of say $ 100k in 3 years a residual of say 40% = $ 40k so only 33% Of the price paid.
A Lexus dealer explained this as Lexus do the exact opposite, you buy a model / derivative and the only options are colours so their residuals look lower but aren’t in the real world.

 

[D00notD00d]

Upsell improves profit.
Options are not always reflected in trade in residual values.

 

[whitex]

Not really true, because there’s no 2WD ICE Macan, unlike the base Macan EV RWD.

2WD base Macan EV is significantly more powerful and faster than 4WD base ICE Macan. Power and performance has always been the marketing differentiator between Porsche trims.

 

[Zcd1]

2WD base Macan EV is significantly more powerful and faster than 4WD base ICE Macan. Power and performance has always been the marketing differentiator between Porsche trims.

EVs are almost always more powerful and faster than ICEV competitors.

Many buyers wouldn’t consider ANY 2WD CUV (especially a RWD version) so that disqualifies the base Macan EV for them.

Twist it any way you want - the Macan EV is much more expensive than the ICE version, and IMHO that is hurting its sales results.

 

[voksic]

The main reason the combustion Macan is discontinued in the European Union is because it fails to meet modern cyber security standards. The specifics – I'll admit – I have not read or studied.

Correct. And if it was only software problem, they could have easily updated it. But it's not, it's a hardware problem. Many manufacturares have the same problem. This is why it's likely the new ICE Macan will be the same as the old ICE one (no time to develop new platform), but with refreshed hardware inside. That still requires significant development, but at least the driving part will be already there.

 

[feye]

In March, the company revealed a 30% year-on-year drop in net profits owing to high production costs and decreased sales in China.

My buddy bought a Macan EV in China. Electronics problem with the screens, half the time don't work. Cannot get it fixed. He complained: Worst car he ever bought. My Taycan also had problems with the battery 3 times amongst other small issues over the years.

The problem with Prosche in China compare to Chinese brands:

• way too expensive
• cheap interior
• unreliable
• slow and expensive to fix
• no connectivity
• no charging services:

1. The fast chargers they have built on their dealerships are only accessable when the dealership is open, and then they are often parked by ICE cars and can only be used with complicated payment... just rediculous and shows their commitment!

2. VW has a charging network CAMS built up in China. Looks nice. Tried to charge, but I was unable to start a charging session after several attempts—whereas a VW ID4 arrived shortly afterward and charged without any issues.

I just bought a Volvo EX90 Ultra with all options for 100k Euros. Porsche does not even have a model like this. Why?

The whole car industry knows, that everthing will be electrified because renewable energy with batteries is so unbelievabely dirt cheap, that nobody will ever tough anything else!

Blume still is totally clueless driven by little sales numbers and his romantic love for the brum brum! Pathetic!

This english lady put it best: "Regardless of whether or not you care about climate change, if you understand energy economics, you should properly electrify your economy as fast as possible, because otherwise your incumbent industries are getting eaten alive by something cheaper and more efficient." youtu.be/8d2HWZORseo