From Taycan to BMW i5 - Honest Opinion

[gnop1950]

I have a 2022 highly specc'd 4S and was recently given a 2023 base model RWD as a loaner whilst my car was in for maintenance. The difference in ride and quietness was night and day with the 4S trouncing the base RWD. I'm another that hasn't really had any issues with CarPlay as well.

Bottom line tho is if you are happy with your new car then it is a great car. I'm also fortunate in having a Porsche dealer that has been very good to me. Of course I've been buying cars from the same dealer (Porsche/Audi/Acura/VW) for almost 30 years.

 

[Gino]

Timely post! I just finished a meeting with my Porsche BA. I was exploring an option to release my highly spec'd MY21 Taycan RWD for essentially the time remaining on my lease (3 months remaining) plus 9 months. I was given preliminary numbers about six weeks ago and while not great, it was financially viable given the spec. Well, I just found that Porsche lowered the residual from about 56k now to 39k over then next 12 months. So to put it in perspective, the car went from an MSRP of $113,000 to a residual of $38,900 in 48 months. Too rich for my blood.
Porsche has a real problem on its hands, as any knowledgeable buyer would have to be thinking far more then twice to buy this EV.

I bought a 2 year old CPO for $75K even though I knew the residual values were going down. Unfortunately I am 64 and my Taycan was an emotional purchase. My wife & I fell in love when we first saw it and then fell madly in love after we drove it.
I decided to bite the bullet and hope I didn't buy a disposable EV which I will find out on Jan 5th, 2030 when my battery warranty expires...
I'm planning to make as much money as possible so I can comfortably afford to pay $60K+ to replace all the battery modules on our baby which will likely still have less than 50K miles on it by then.
Ideally I will just keep it in my collection until I drop dead, can't drive or get in/out of it any longer!
My definition of a beautiful car is one that can be covered in dirt/dust but the silhouette evokes an emotional response to its simple sexy lines.
Taycan has this response in spades!

 

[Jonathan S.]

If you don’t mind spending a few extra bucks the M5 touring is confirmed for the US market, if you’re a fan of the new 5 series.

Yes, that does sound intriguing!
If the EV range is substantial, then could combine the best of my A6ar, 4CT, and my wife’s i4 M50.
Or the EV part of the powertrain might be biased toward enhancing the performance to compete with the RS6 Avant.
Meanwhile I’ll be reading all the teaser updates!

 

[Gino]

Still have an independent dealer near us that actually treats us like they want to our custom. All Porsche want is “There’s a charge for that”. After 7 Porsches over 25 years I’m falling out of love with them. Only way I’ll have another is secondhand and probably a 911

I'm lucky I live near Porsche Newport Beach in California. They treat my wife and I so well that I'm looking to justify my next Porsche to fill another niche in my garage. I just hope I don't regret buying (and holding) a Porsche Taycan EV if battery replacement gets so expensive it makes no sense to do and makes it a museum piece after 8 years. The value of 8+ year old EVs will drop through the floor if Porsche allows this to happen.
I'm betting they won't since I expect Porsche will lose many customers if their EVs could potentially have value only for parts salvage once the battery fails after warranty or just the threat of failing after warranty will destroy market value.
Hopefully a 3rd party battery replacement service for all EVs will pop up at some point which would be more reasonable. Replacing a main battery pack would hopefully cost no more than rebuilding or replacing an internal combustion engine.

 

[TXSchnee]

Yes, that does sound intriguing!
If the EV range is substantial, then could combine the best of my A6ar, 4CT, and my wife’s i4 M50.
Or the EV part of the powertrain might be biased toward enhancing the performance to compete with the RS6 Avant.
Meanwhile I’ll be reading all the teaser updates!

Just picked up an XM, which has the PHEV set up that is being ported over to the M5. Still in the 1200 mile break in, but electric range showing 37 miles in a 6,000 lb SUV. Should be higher on the M5 sedan and touring. (I know the XM is ugly, but the interior is glorious and I am in there when driving, plus 13% off a custom order).

 

[snstevens]

Hopefully a 3rd party battery replacement service for all EVs will pop up at some point which would be more reasonable. Replacing a main battery pack would hopefully cost no more than rebuilding or replacing an internal combustion engine.

I've wondered that myself. While not definitive, it appears that the price for a Porsche ICE engine rebuild would be in the range of $10k-$20k for a Cayman or Boxster, or $15k-$30k for a 911 series, but this doesn't always include removal and reinstallation costs. (see link & link).

At different times in this forum and elsewhere I've seen a parts-price for the 93.4KWh battery from $25k - $40k. At Porsche Columbus I found a price of $26,343.90, but that doesn't include installation (sort of like the ICE scenario above).

Seems to me that the cost of a full ICE rebuilt on a 911 and a battery replacement on a Taycan are roughly in the same ballpark.

 

[Gino]

I've wondered that myself. While not definitive, it appears that the price for a Porsche ICE engine rebuild would be in the range of $10k-$20k for a Cayman or Boxster, or $15k-$30k for a 911 series, but this doesn't always include removal and reinstallation costs. (see link & link).

At different times in this forum and elsewhere I've seen a parts-price for the 93.4KWh battery from $25k - $40k. At Porsche Columbus I found a price of $26,343.90, but that doesn't include installation (sort of like the ICE scenario above).

Seems to me that the cost of a full ICE rebuilt on a 911 and a battery replacement on a Taycan are roughly in the same ballpark.

I was told labor is 10-12 hours so labor is likely to be in the $3K to $4K. Someone on this forum reported the total cost the dealership submitted to Porsche for warranty replacement of the entire battery at $57K plus labor to remove & replace so at full retail we're talking $60K+. I haven't been able to get a straight answer from any dealer as to the cost of a full battery replacement after the 8 year 100K warranty has expired. The labor is likely no more than $3K to $4K but what Porsche will charge for the LG battery pouches and associated electronics/BMS(battery management system).
I was quoted $23K, parts/labor for a Porsche certified motor for my 2000 Boxster back in 2018. My 2000 Boxster was a $68K list price so to replace the motor would be 30% of what it originally sold for.
I would expect the cost for parts & labor to replace the full HV battery will likely be 25% to 30% of the original vehicle cost.
My 2021 Taycan sold for roughly $100K so I anticipate Porsche will need to be in the $25K to $33K all in.
For comparison the cost to replace all 5 battery modules on a $120K Model S Tesla 2 years ago was $36K all in which is roughly 30% of the original purchase price.
Anything above 30% of the base model Taycan for the 71 kWh HV battery would be too high and lead consumers to lose faith in Porsche as an EV supplier by branding Porsche EVs as disposable.
I would love to hear from anyone on this forum to let us know what they paid to replace all the battery modules after warranty through a Porsche dealership. Once we have a number we will know if Porsche-Audi EVs are considered disposable after 8 years or 100,000 miles whichever comes first.

 

[snstevens]

My 2021 Taycan sold for roughly $100K so I anticipate Porsche will need to be in the $25K to $33K all in.

This aligns nicely with the Porsche Columbus price of $26,343.90 + $3,500 labor = $29,843.90 (~$30k) that you posit above.

Perhaps someone on the Forum has some first hand data they can share, but $30k seems reasonable to me.

 

[Gino]

This aligns nicely with the Porsche Columbus price of $26,343.90 + $3,500 labor = $29,843.90 (~$30k) that you posit above.

Perhaps someone on the Forum has some first hand data they can share, but $30k seems reasonable to me.

That is promising information to replace a full HV battery at $30K if the warranty for the replacement goes back to 8 years 100k miles.
It would sting a bit but it would be worth it to me to pay up to $30K to refresh my Taycan batteries to new since I will keep it perfect inside & out until the day I die.
The idea if I could pay $30K for another 8 years minimum means my cost per year would be roughly $3500 and lower for every year beyond year 8.
Of course if it ended up costing 50% less at a certified 3rd party shop then that would be even better.

 

[McgR]

I tested an i5 40 with 20 inch wheels and standard suspension and a 60 with 20 inch and adaptive M suspension. World off difference! Maybe the adaptive non M will also be fine.

 

[e92er]

Good comparison and glad you're liking the BMW! I love my Taycan but the wife drives a X5M and every now and then I love ripping it through the gears!
In reading your review, it made me appreciate my Taycan even more. You mentioned the ride and comfort are better in the BMW but you had the base seats and the steel suspension. I have a nicely spec'd GTS and love my seats 1000x more than any BMW seats I've ever had. Maybe if you get back into a Porsche again, try it with some of the upgrades they offer and see how different they make the car feel and drive. Enjoy the i5!

 

[Genau]

Someone on this forum reported the total cost the dealership submitted to Porsche for warranty replacement of the entire battery at $57K plus labor to remove & replace so at full retail we're talking $60K+.

Here's that post:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/baseline-for-hv-battery-soh-performance.12815/post-279964​

 

[Scandinavian]

Interesting to see your evaluation of the i5 base model vs a Taycan. I can certainly understand the economic reasons that sound compelling.

I recently had a BMW in for service and had a chance to try out a BMW i5M60. Very nicely specced car as a demo, with rear wheel steering, HUD, ACC etc. And as you stated in th original post the build quality feels at least as good as the Taycan if not better. Our test drive included some smaller roads in a mountainous area as well as some fast passage on French motorways.

What I found positive.
- Overall the BMW software system is years ahead of Porsche’s. Experience over the years evident.
- Rear wheel steering was very good on the small roads.
- ACC worked great and sensed cars in front of you even if not activated at cruising speed.
- Suspension was ok but felt confused at times in the front.
- Power and acceleration was great
- BMW feel in the steering
- The i-drive system worked really well
- A nice blend of sw and physical buttons
- The software and app seemed light years ahead of Porsche. No comparison at all.

Not so positive and some issues
- The i5 M60 suffered from a lot of wind noise around the windows at motorway speed plus VAT!.
- No frunk storage at all due to same platform as ICE cars. Such a long bonnet wasted. Shame.
- The car felt very heavy on mountain roads under breaking and cornering.
- Suspension felt confused in the front when steering around tight corners at speed.
- Weight of the car
- I strongly question the claims about range!! Battery is only 83 kWh gross I think
- BMW claim about range and consumption according to WLTP do not match with battery size.
- Charging speed is lower than Taycan and charging curve falls off the peak quite quickly.
- Not a good combination of range vs charging curve for my use on long European road trips.

I have compared my experience from Taycan Turbo vs i5 M60. The best thing with my Taycan is the steering, road holding and confidence it gives when driving at speed. The Porsche is superior in these things even if BMW is a drivers car, but not in the same league.

The rumours of a M5 Hybrid release in June however would be very interesting! i5 M60 in this generation is not!

 

[Gino]

Here's that post:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/baseline-for-hv-battery-soh-performance.12815/post-279964​

Yes, that was under warranty but I hope that's not what they eventually charge anyone outside of warranty. I think that was the base model 71 KwH battery so the higher capacity batteries will likely cost a bit more.
I was talking to the Transportation Safety Board and they are concerned if the cost is so high to repair or replace batteries that DIYers will try to do it themselves to repair or replace the cells and not do it properly so they go up in flames during the repair/replacement or even worse they catch fire in a garage at home or in public which would be like a bunch of fire bombs with the potential to go off.
I'm already hearing from one of my mechanics who specializes in transmissions but does everything on vehicles, thinking he's going to make bank rebuilding, repairing & replacing batteries in cars.
These shops will have to be certified to do this work, have the proper training and tooling to insure their own safety as well as the safety of the repaired vehicle.
I hope I never have to worry about this but I have almost 6 more years till I have to fly without a net...

 

[f1eng]

I hope people’s battery fears are pessimistic.

I bought a Toyota Prius hybrid in 2005 out of interest and liked it and kept it.
The magazines were full of criticism of concern about battery life and replacement cost back then too.
I “sold” it to my daughter 6 years ago and she is still using it. The traction battery is still the original, 19 years old.
A 12V lead-acid auxiliary battery lasts about 5 to 6 years so it has gone through several of them but the traction battery, presumably benefiting from effective battery management software, is fine.