[Competition] - the BMW iX5 M60 looks strong

[daveo4EV]

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0458814EN_US/the-new-bmw-x5-and-ix5

https://g65.bimmerpost.com/forums/s...g65-debut-specs-wallpapers-videos-photos-info

this is a very very strong looking product…from BMW - X5 60 xDrive

some stand out features IMHO

• Range 400+ miles
• Vehicle-to-Load - run household items thing directly from the vehicle - great for camping
• Vehicle-to-Vehicle - charge another EV
• Vehicle-to-home - back up battery for your home
• Their NACS port handles both AC power and FastDC power vs. Porsche's half-assed Fast DC charging only on the drivers side and L1/L2 J-1772 charging only on the passenger side…they didn't even go NACS on the passenger sided for AC _ONLY_ - and they are shipping a J-1772 EVSE rather than the standard/future NACS charging plug/port…
• 460 kW max charging speed!!
• Price - probably can't get this car much above $115k even checking _ALL_ the boxes…
  • that's $85k less than my sample Cayenne Turbo EV build, and likely $65k less than a GTS build once it's out…
• 15 kW onboard AC charging - BMW is doubling down on faster home/AC charging while Porsche is neutering their vehicle's via software updates to slower home charging and can't get their story straight as to how fast their OBC's are…or make them reliable.
• Auto close doors…and auto open with sensors.

I see it playing how this way in the vs. Cayenne/Porsche

• Driving Dynamics I'll give the edge to Prosche here based on history/reputation - but the BMW is no slouch - it wil be fine/equal for 87% of driving vs. the Cayenne
• Pure performance/acceleration - Cayenne Turbo wins hands down by only at great cost/MSRP/Price - other trims are equal or slower than the BMW - the BMW is going to be more than equal to a 4S or GTS - and trounce the lower trims…
• Interior customization choices - probably Porsche wins, but again only at great cost
• Tech - BMW hands down winner
• EV features - BMW
• Driving Aids - BMW
• Price - BMW probably by 20/30% more favorable pricing
• Interior Room - BMW
• NACS support - BMW
• Home charing speed - BMW
• forward looking vehicle-to-[blah] features - BMW
• screens and tech - BMW
• apps on the passenger screen/entertainment - BMW

Summary: Prosche win's on driving dynamics and raw acceleration - and loses on everything else…and charges too much vs. competitive alternatives…

I'm a long time Porsche victim - and would love a Cayenne EV - but the lack of tech engagement, a half-assed NACS implementation, history of lack luster EV engagement and ever increasing pricing with no real end in sight or justification of their "tax" in the EV is going to make this one a hard purchase to swallow the Porsche tax - I'll be looking to buy a full BEV SUV in late 2027 and both cars will be available by then … gonna be hard for Porsche to win my business if this sucker is as good as the brief…

Porsche needs to up their game on the entire vehicle feature set, and make their pricing closer to the competition - but I'm not going to pay 30% for the Porsche badge and less tech and half assed EV charging support…

Porsche isn't going to get the message if we keep buying their products and asking them to up their game - they're going to have to lose hard to "get the message" that the EV world is different…may have to buy a BMW - what a shame.

$0.02 YMMV

 

[daveo4EV]

using BMW's own categories

Powertrains - BMW = Porsche (except for Turbo)

probably about equal to a 4S or GTS Cayenne​

Charigng and battery technology - BMW > Porsche

more advanced, faster, greater capacity ​

Next-Gen Digital Experience & Cockpit - BMW > Porsche

a laundry list of things Porsche doesn't even anticipate doing any time soon​

Chassis Dynamics and Ride Control - BMW <= Porsche but only by a slight margin

probably a major upgrade for bMW bringing them closer to Porsche​

Driver Assistance & Safety (SAE Level 2) - BMW > Porsche

so much listed here that Porsche doesn't do or even try to do…​

​

Price - BMW wins with an excellent SUV BEV feature set …

 

[daveo4EV]

you're likely to be able to option/purchase a fully loaded BMW iX5 M60 for less money than a nicely optioned Macan 4S EV…

there may be something wrong in Stuttgart…but perhaps I'm missing something.

 

[frankchn]

This has been true for a gas Cayenne or Macan compared to the X3 and X5 for the last couple of generations.

A Cayenne S with a few options gets you very close in price to an X5M.

 

[daveo4EV]

This has been true for a gas Cayenne or Macan compared to the X3 and X5 for the last couple of generations.

A Cayenne S with a few options gets you very close in price to an X5M.

I think what's different is Porsche no longer has their engines and exhaust note to hide behind - and with low CG's of EV's handling dynamics are also much more equal and their competitors have closed the gap…

add in the "superior" tech/software focus and a Porsche EV is simply a lower tech worse software vehicle from a company known for 9,000 RPM flat=6's…

ICE Porsche's an expensive mechanical watch…

EV Porsche's an expensive digital watch…and they don't do the digital quite as well as the other guys and yet charge like they are still making a mechanical watch…

 

[frankchn]

I think what's different is Porsche no longer has their engines and exhaust note to hide behind - and with low CG's of EV's handling dynamics are also much more equal and their competitors have closed the gap…

I think this would be more of a problem when Porsche transitions their sports cars to EVs at some point, since those are on bespoke flat sixes coupled to PDKs or stick shifts.

The ICE Macans and Cayennes are using the Volkswagen corporate turbo V6 and V8s, used in everything from the Touareg to the Urus. The powertrains are nothing special, especially in the Cayenne, where the corporate engine is coupled to the ZF 8-speed used everywhere.

Arguably BMW has a superior powertrain in the lower models with their excellent B58/S58 inline sixes compared to the TTV6 in the Macans and base Cayennes.

I think for the SUVs, the badge and the Porsche handling characteristics are the selling points, and I think this will remain so for the EV Macan and Cayennes. Putting Active Ride into the Cayenne EV (even if it is only an option) shows that Porsche is still making an effort there

 

[W1NGE]

Cayenne EV 300Kg lighter (smaller battery), higher towing capacity, rear load space seems better as there is only manual release of rear seats in BMW. Cosmetically both are in a race to be the ugliest, cooler front lights, DRLs and indicators on BMW, not sure about the awkward looking screens in BMW and the steering wheel looks meh to me.

ICE petrol and diesel, EV, Hybrid and Hydrogen powered variants of the BMW.

Servicing will be significantly cheaper with BMW if the iX3 is anything to go by.

Bang for buck the BMW is the clear winner.

Porsche are clearly worried as I typed just iX5 into Google search and the first hit was the Porsche Cayenne EV.

 

[CHP]

Prices are not out, performance of iX50 rather similar to base Cayenne. Interior and exterior is personal preference. If prices for new ICE x5 40 are any indication, BMW will be more expensive in Germany and UK. So yes, if you are in need for all the latest gimmicks, by all means get the iX50. I really don't miss anything on Cayenne and ergonomics are perfect. Consumption is rather similar, they just put in a bigger battery. The iX3 is kind of no-brainer in terms of price, technology and range, don't think the iX5 will be.