Taycan v Hyundai Ioniq 6

[kort]

The design of a car is protected by various IP protections. A manufacturer can't just copy another manufacturer's designs. If they could, we'd have had a Japanese 911 long ago.

https://foundationlaw.com/car_design_patents/#:~:text=17 Feb Protecting Car Designs&text=In the United States, designs,protectable by a design patent.

oh my, that's a real reach.

 

[Archimedes]

oh my, that's a real reach.

But it's not. It's happened numerous times. In fact the only reason it isn't happening right now is because certain jurisdictions (cough, China, cough) don't have any IP protections. Ever seen the Macan knock offs selling in China? Notice how there aren't similar vehicles on sale in the U.S. or Europe?

That Hyundai concept car was basically a designer taking the rear of a 993, the front rake of a 996, and the front end of a 991.2, smoothing everything out a bit and stretching it. It looks epic, but it's not original. And it's fairly likely the reason the finished product looks different from the concept is because they didn't want to wind up in court.

 

[KensingtonPark]

I

That Hyundai concept car was basically a designer taking the rear of a 993, the front rake of a 996, and the front end of a 991.2, smoothing everything out a bit and stretching it. It looks epic, but it's not original. And it's fairly likely the reason the finished product looks different from the concept is because they didn't want to wind up in court.

It is certainly possible that it was a consideration, but design elements of the type that you have described have been hard to enforce. I suspect stamping/machining costs and interior space impacts were as much of a consideration (if not greater) in the changes as potential litigation.

 

[batteredhaddock]

I quite like it, but I’m a fan of the Ioniq 5 design vs the EV6 (which I find to be a dogs dinner) already.

Nice to see such options and choice, at some point if I wan’t to ever retire I’ll need to downsize and I’d take something like an Ioniq 6 vs an anodyne Model 3 any day.

Really like the Late Break Show for going over the detail on new vehicles though. 100% not a Taycan competitor but definitely a very strong mid market offering.

Also, clever enough to call it “Hyundai’s Taycan” rather than a Taycan competitor. A subtle but important distinction.

 

[ciaranob]

I quite like it, but I’m a fan of the Ioniq 5 design vs the EV6 (which I find to be a dogs dinner) already.

Nice to see such options and choice, at some point if I wan’t to ever retire I’ll need to downsize and I’d take something like an Ioniq 6 vs an anodyne Model 3 any day.

Really like the Late Break Show for going over the detail on new vehicles though. 100% not a Taycan competitor but definitely a very strong mid market offering.

Also, clever enough to call it “Hyundai’s Taycan” rather than a Taycan competitor. A subtle but important distinction.

Hmmm, vid seems a wee bit 'oversold' for me - smacks of a paid ad for Hyundai - agree re design, not to my taste either, but good to see more product going out.

 

[batteredhaddock]

Hmmm, vid seems a wee bit 'oversold' for me - smacks of a paid ad for Hyundai - agree re design, not to my taste either, but good to see more product going out.

He does generally go into that level of detail being fair but I get your point. Refreshing that its focus on design as opposed to just “ooh look an exascale computer pointlessly shoehorned into a car” stuff.

 

[gnop1950]

While I liked the looks of the Ioniq 5 I don't really like the looks of the 6. It is good to see additional competition in the EV segment. From what I've read it should be competitively priced to the Tesla M3.

 

[Fish Fingers]

I don't see it as a Taycan alternative. I doubt there's anyone that would put them in the same class.

But I could see it appealing to some Tesla customers who want something a bit less common.

 

[B61]

The design of a car is protected by various IP protections. A manufacturer can't just copy another manufacturer's designs. If they could, we'd have had a Japanese 911 long ago.

https://foundationlaw.com/car_design_patents/#:~:text=17 Feb Protecting Car Designs&text=In the United States, designs,protectable by a design patent.

You are right, but i’m quite sure that they know how far they can go…or at least, they think that they know

 

[Archimedes]

You are right, but i’m quite sure that they know how far they can go…or at least, they think that they know

Agreed. It’s part of the design review process. In this case, it’s probably why the finished product lost some of the design elements of the concept.

 

[kempez]

Hmmm, vid seems a wee bit 'oversold' for me - smacks of a paid ad for Hyundai - agree re design, not to my taste either, but good to see more product going out.

Jonny is one of the best reviewers out there and the last thing he is, is a shill for the manufacturers. He’s 100% spot on in that the Korean manufacturers have changed the game and are producing fresh and well-built cars. His opinion of design, of course, no-one has to agree with

If you watch his other video’s. They all go into this kind of detail and they’re happy to be critical too. It will be interesting to see how this car drives

I personally like that Hyundai have gone for something new. But the design is a bit ‘off’ for me. Nearly excellent, but doesn’t make it.

 

[DCYL725]

Why is this even a comparison?

 

[KensingtonPark]

Why is this even a comparison?

It's just that there still are not a ton of interesting EVs. So all "interesting" EVs get lumped together by people who want an EV first, not a car first. Nobody would cross shop a Subaru Outback against a Panamera because there are a LOT of ICE vehicles to choose and therefore many more adjacent to what you might be looking at.

It is, however, what is dangerous for Porsche because if you think about the gap between a car like an Ioniq 5 and a Taycan, most of it is in handling, design, "trappings," and quality. The gap that really kind of goes away is quickness. So they really do need to figure out the niggling things that are causing problems in some of these cars before they are left with just handling and design.

 

[DCYL725]

It's just that there still are not a ton of interesting EVs. So all "interesting" EVs get lumped together by people who want an EV first, not a car first. Nobody would cross shop a Subaru Outback against a Panamera because there are a LOT of ICE vehicles to choose and therefore many more adjacent to what you might be looking at.

It is, however, what is dangerous for Porsche because if you think about the gap between a car like an Ioniq 5 and a Taycan, most of it is in handling, design, "trappings," and quality. The gap that really kind of goes away is quickness. So they really do need to figure out the niggling things that are causing problems in some of these cars before they are left with just handling and design.

By trappings do you mean brand premium?
At the end of the day Porsche margins are still better than other brands. Doing well for the company and shareholders.

A Hyundai will always ls be a Hyundai. It’s a bizarre comparison to begin with as they are in completely different price ranges.

Price matters because it determines the cost of goods or input costs into a car/EV to generate a target profit. These COGS directly influence the driving experience and the cost to make the car.

Comparing EVs in similar price ranges makes more sense as the input costs are more similar and the manufacturers are at level playing grounds.

Design, handling, and quality matters. It was never about quickness unless it’s a real race car. These are cars for the road. I think consumers will care less about quickness as the bar becomes more leveled and streamlined across all EVs.

 

[KensingtonPark]

By trappings do you mean brand premium?
At the end of the day Porsche margins are still better than other brands. Doing well for the company and shareholders.

A Hyundai will always ls be a Hyundai. It’s a bizarre comparison to begin with as they are in completely different price ranges.

Price matters because it determines the cost of goods or input costs into a car/EV to generate a target profit. These COGS directly influence the driving experience and the cost to make the car.

Comparing EVs in similar price ranges makes more sense as the input costs are more similar and the manufacturers are at level playing grounds.

Design, handling, and quality matters. It was never about quickness unless it’s a real race car. These are cars for the road. I think consumers will care less about quickness as the bar becomes more leveled and streamlined across all EVs.

Agree on all fronts, but historically performance cars and family haulers were not close in quickness and acceleration, so it was a differentiating characteristic. You never had to say that a Porsche was "just a little" quicker than the Subaru. Right now, Taycan has design and handling nicely secured; they are working on the quality bit.