[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[daveo4EV]

given Porsche's recent facination with pricing themselves out of competition and their general lack of enthusiasm for things EV…this could be a replacment for my Cayenne Hybrid in 2026/2027…and I hate the Lucid Air - but bring me Lucid Saphire driving dynamic's with SUV class space (120 cubic/feet - more passenger room than a Chevy Suburban) - $132k fully optioned - 450 miles range - 350 kW charging…

yeah Porsche has got problems, and driving dynamics - well most likely the gap has been closed…



if they continue down this path - they may end up where they started - with only 911's as an offering…

A Cayenne EV at more than $150k (probably a lot more based on what I'm seeing with Taycan pricing) from a company that seems to wish for the past rather than embrace the future…hmmm…

going to be interesting the next 5+ years…

 

[d00d]

Consider the Escalade EV arriving at dealers now, or wait a year or two for the Suburban EV.

 

[T4S]

given Porsche's recent facination with pricing themselves out of competition and their general lack of enthusiasm for things EV…this could be a replacment for my Cayenne Hybrid in 2026/2027…and I hate the Lucid Air - but bring me Lucid Saphire driving dynamic's with SUV class space (120 cubic/feet - more passenger room than a Chevy Suburban) - $132k fully optioned - 450 miles range - 350 kW charging…

yeah Porsche has got problems, and driving dynamics - well most likely the gap has been closed…



if they continue down this path - they may end up where they started - with only 911's as an offering…

A Cayenne EV at more than $150k (probably a lot more based on what I'm seeing with Taycan pricing) from a company that seems to wish for the past rather than embrace the future…hmmm…

going to be interesting the next 5+ years…

Agreed, Porsche continuously increasing their prices will cause them to eventually be in the same starting price range as Bentley, Lamborghini, McLaren, etc. (a few options specced out in most vehicles already gets you there anyways). That is not taking into account dealer markup.

Quite sad tbh...

 

[tigerbalm]

Porsche appears to be trying to reduce their production volumes while keeping/growing their revenue.

Stiff competition should give them pause for thought here.

 

[Tooney]

Where do you get it repaired?

 

[A.Mayor]

Agreed, Porsche continuously increasing their prices will cause them to eventually be in the same starting price range as Bentley, Lamborghini, McLaren, etc. (a few options specced out in most vehicles already gets you there anyways). That is not taking into account dealer markup.

Quite sad tbh...

That’s always been Porsche’s strategy — restrict supply to boost demand and maintain exclusivity. The law of exclusivity demands them to steadily raise prices, in lockstep with economic growth and inflation.

 

[daveo4EV]

Where do you get it repaired?

vs. the competence demonstrated by Porsche for servicing EV's with them never having a "trained" tech available or in very very limited supply or parts for EV's are on back order for months?

Or having to drop the car at porsche service for days/weeks for a software update since they can't do OTA?

when I make the decision service network will be considered - but by then it will be clear if Lucid has enough infrastructure to be reasonable…

but so far given the lack of "focus" on EV's by Porsche and it's service centers, I'll at least take an EV centric manufacturer over legacy guy where EV's are the minority product and they really have no idea what they are doing...

also Lucid is already "adequate" in my area for servicing/supporting their product

but please, don't tell me the legacy guys have "superior" service for EV's when they barely undersand their product, and every service call requires them to call the mother ship for a 3-15 day delay in figuring out the problem - Porsche's vaunted service network hasn't really been an asset in terms of managing the blizzard of recalls for Taycan…

I've owned Porsche's for 15+ years - the service network "concern" about why you don't go with another option is:

• FUD
• ignores common and demonstrable shortfalls of existing manufacturers
• plans for failure vs. success - I'd prefer to believe I won't need service that often
• assumes the service network is competent - when in fact with EV's I've found the service netwwork with ICE vendors to be a liability since they 'don't know their product' and 'lack focus'
  • they have 20 ICE mechanics, and 2 EV "certified" mechanics
  • all of the mechanics at Tesla/Polestar/Rivian/Lucid are "EV certified" mechanics - because they DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE!

and the existing guys just don't understand EV's and don't seem interested in learning

also any EV centric brand is not building a business model out of "vehicle service" - the ICE guys seem to want to recapture their past glory with service being their main profit center - $2500 for the 24 month Macan EV "service" - which is nothing more than an "inspection" - not even an actual service where anything is actually done?

I scoff at anyone trotting out an existing legacy ICE dealer service network as an advantage when it come to selling/supporting EV's - my actual factual experience has been they are more liability than asset - and I've been driving EV's since 2011…

at least none of the EV centric brands ever told me their "EV guy wasn't in the shop for the next couple of days"…

 

[Tooney]

Nearest Lucid repair choices where I am: 150 miles/190 miles/300 miles
I don't want any vehicle any brand that badly.

 

[T4S]

That’s always been Porsche’s strategy — restrict supply to boost demand and maintain exclusivity. The law of exclusivity demands them to steadily raise prices, in lockstep with economic growth and inflation.

Sure, but they will eventually take sales away from other VW-owned brands. Why buy a 911 GT3RS when you can purchase a Lamborghini Temerario? According to some, it is apparently easier to purchase a Lamborghini than Porsche's GT3 models. Sure, driving dynamics are different, but Lamborghini is on another level of exclusivity.

I feel that Porsche is starting to do exactly what Ferrari (and Rolex in the watch world) have been doing - if you want to buy something new from them, you need to buy their entry level models first before they allow you to put your name on a list to buy their new models. They may not even call you back.

But things may have changed now with Ferrari as they try and boost their sales.

 

[T4S]

vs. the competence demonstrated by Porsche for servicing EV's with them never having a "trained" tech available or in very very limited supply or parts for EV's are on back order for months?

Or having to drop the car at porsche service for days/weeks for a software update since they can't do OTA?

when I make the decision service network will be considered - but by then it will be clear if Lucid has enough infrastructure to be reasonable…

but so far given the lack of "focus" on EV's by Porsche and it's service centers, I'll at least take an EV centric manufacturer over legacy guy where EV's are the minority product and they really have no idea what they are doing...

also Lucid is already "adequate" in my area for servicing/supporting their product

but please, don't tell me the legacy guys have "superior" service for EV's when they barely undersand their product, and every service call requires them to call the mother ship for a 3-15 day delay in figuring out the problem - Porsche's vaunted service network hasn't really been an asset in terms of managing the blizzard of recalls for Taycan…

Service at EV auto manufacturers are better for sure. But Porsche can get to that point if they organize better. I've driven the Lucid Air and in my opinion, the Taycan is on a whole different level of driving dynamics and experience. Granted, mine does have Air suspension, PTV+, Rear Axle Steering, PDCC, and Sport Chrono package.

I couldn't get in a good driving position with the Air, I preferred the position in the Taycan. Plus, the Taycans' charging curve is superior.

Other than driving dynamics and seat positioning, the Air is pretty good for a new vehicle from a new manufacturer. The Air is what the Mercedes EQS should have been.

 

[daveo4EV]

Service at EV auto manufacturers are better for sure. But Porsche can get to that point if they organize better. I've driven the Lucid Air and in my opinion, the Taycan is on a whole different level of driving dynamics and experience. Granted, mine does have Air suspension, PTV+, Rear Axle Steering, PDCC, and Sport Chrono package.

I couldn't get in a good driving position with the Air, I preferred the position in the Taycan. Plus, the Taycans' charging curve is superior.

Other than driving dynamics and seat positioning, the Air is pretty good for a new vehicle from a new manufacturer. The Air is what the Mercedes EQS should have been.

a few things:

drive a saphire - it's better than Taycan - driving dynamics are excellent - but for $250k no thank you…
watch the Gravity review- Kyle specificcally has the exact feedback you have about the air, and the Gravity is a 2.0 product - lots of lessons learned…and Kyle loves the seating postiion, steering wheel, and driving dynamics of the Gravity - and the engineer in the car says they took a lot of the saphire stuff and it's the basis of the Gravity…
Charging Curve for Gravity is not the Air…again better

I _HATE_ the Air, but respect the driving dynamics of the Saphire (Which according to many who'd driven it, are simply excellent by any standard even Porsche)

the Gravity is a Saphire Air sports SUV from what I can tell - perfect replacment for a Cayenne - and tops out at $130k fully optioned w/450 mile range, and 350 kW charging…

I'm goign to be watching roll out and incremental improvements until I haved to find an EV replacment for my Cayenne in 2026/2027…

 

[A.Mayor]

Sure, but they will eventually take sales away from other VW-owned brands. Why buy a 911 GT3RS when you can purchase a Lamborghini Temerario? According to some, it is apparently easier to purchase a Lamborghini than Porsche's GT3 models. Sure, driving dynamics are different, but Lamborghini is on another level of exclusivity.

I feel that Porsche is starting to do exactly what Ferrari (and Rolex in the watch world) have been doing - if you want to buy something new from them, you need to buy their entry level models first before they allow you to put your name on a list to buy their new models. They may not even call you back.

But things may have changed now with Ferrari as they try and boost their sales.

That’s not an entirely fair comparison — the Temerario is Lamborghini’s entry into their universe, while the track-focused 911 GT3 RS is Porsche’s top-tier trim. Cannibalization within the VAG isn’t a major concern, as these brands appeal to different demographics with different entry price points.

You’re right, though — Porsche has long operated like Ferrari, Rolex, Hermès, and LVMH brands, trading on exclusivity and desirability. That might sound frivolous, but it’s a tough balancing act — it’s both hard business and an art that few truly master.

 

[Fun TC Driving]

The new Lucid Gravity is appealing in lots of ways but no thanks on its mini van look to me.

 

[Jhenson29]

vs. the competence demonstrated by Porsche for servicing EV's with them never having a "trained" tech available or in very very limited supply or parts for EV's are on back order for months?

Or having to drop the car at porsche service for days/weeks for a software update since they can't do OTA?

when I make the decision service network will be considered - but by then it will be clear if Lucid has enough infrastructure to be reasonable…

but so far given the lack of "focus" on EV's by Porsche and it's service centers, I'll at least take an EV centric manufacturer over legacy guy where EV's are the minority product and they really have no idea what they are doing...

also Lucid is already "adequate" in my area for servicing/supporting their product

but please, don't tell me the legacy guys have "superior" service for EV's when they barely undersand their product, and every service call requires them to call the mother ship for a 3-15 day delay in figuring out the problem - Porsche's vaunted service network hasn't really been an asset in terms of managing the blizzard of recalls for Taycan…

I've owned Porsche's for 15+ years - the service network "concern" about why you don't go with another option is:

• FUD
• ignores common and demonstrable shortfalls of existing manufacturers
• plans for failure vs. success - I'd prefer to believe I won't need service that often
• assumes the service network is competent - when in fact with EV's I've found the service netwwork with ICE vendors to be a liability since they 'don't know their product' and 'lack focus'
  • they have 20 ICE mechanics, and 2 EV "certified" mechanics
  • all of the mechanics at Tesla/Polestar/Rivian/Lucid are "EV certified" mechanics - because they DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE!

and the existing guys just don't understand EV's and don't seem interested in learning

also any EV centric brand is not building a business model out of "vehicle service" - the ICE guys seem to want to recapture their past glory with service being their main profit center - $2500 for the 24 month Macan EV "service" - which is nothing more than an "inspection" - not even an actual service where anything is actually done?

I scoff at anyone trotting out an existing legacy ICE dealer service network as an advantage when it come to selling/supporting EV's - my actual factual experience has been they are more liability than asset - and I've been driving EV's since 2011…

at least none of the EV centric brands ever told me their "EV guy wasn't in the shop for the next couple of days"…

I have to agree with @Tooney

Closest to me is 277 miles. Then 300+ after that.

It may well be a valid argument that Lucid’s service is better than Porsche (I wouldn’t know). But it’s irrelevant if they are that far away. It’s a non-starter. There could be warranty issues. Or the car may need to go in for reasons beyond mine or Lucid’s control if it’s in an accident and certain work requires it to visit the shop. ?‍ At the end of the day, it’s a calculated risk and not one I’m willing to take. And I think that’s a reasonable position. But if there are service locations near you (which I see there are) then that’s mostly a non-issue. (Maybe just for travel, but that wouldn’t be as much of an issue for me, personally; it may be for others).

That said, I never had issues scheduling or getting service on any of my cars with Porsche, the dealer is only 10 miles away, and they always have a loaner if I need it. So, even if the car did have to spend a long time at the dealer (which, for me, it hasn’t), it’s convenient to get to and I would have loaner in the interim. This may all be location dependent and if that’s not someone else’s experience in their location, their opinion may differ. And that’s okay.

And that said…Lucids look like a roomba. ?

 

[Mr.Smith]

The only large OEM that is chasing EVs is Hyundai group, the others are being forced by regulation.
The problem is the Lithium Ion battery, it's cost and lack of demand for EVs unless regulation requires it, like Norway.

Lucid makes a fantastic car, this Gravity is an SUV I would get, but the company will be fully taken over by the Saudis soon enough.
Rivian will be part of the VAG

Car manufacturing is not the same as a cell phone manufacturing, or software. It's a low margin, pennies business at best. It thrives in the good times and goes bankrupt in the bad times.

We are car and EV enthusiast, but we are not the majority of car buyers.