"Porsche woes mount after botched bet on electric sports cars" - 4 articles

[Vercingetorix]

Everyone buying a car now goes and checks at least a review.

Not everyone. I don’t read car reviews. I am quite capable of driving cars myself, and making my own decisions. I am not alone.

 

[Vercingetorix]

That must be why the 911 had another sale record in 2024 and has no equivalent in the GT world ?

Everyone knows the Chinese do everything better than the rest of the world. Chun says so.

 

[ze_shark]

True, but a sales record with no or few profits means very little.

You are arguing that the contribution margin of the 911 is minimal ? on what basis ?

 

[chun]

Everyone knows the Chinese do everything better than the rest of the world. Chun says so.

No, but they do EVs better than the rest of the world.

The market says so, not me. But go on, put ridiculous words in people's mouths when you have no argument, to feel better about yourself.

 

[chun]

That must be why the 911 had another sale record in 2024 and has no equivalent in the GT world ?

And how come with most sold in 2024, they got the least money from them also in 2024?
One has to wonder. Math ain't mathing. Oh, wait... maybe it is, they sold a bunch at a loss?

 

[chun]

Not everyone. I don’t read car reviews. I am quite capable of driving cars myself, and making my own decisions. I am not alone.

So based on your driving, for a weekend car you'd choose a 911 over a ferrari? Okey, enjoy it
You may not be alone, but you are also a minority, in thinking that people don't cross shop and reserch, be that reviews or driving at dealerships.

Anyway, this discussion is mostly about EV, and the Taycan. And the point was that Porsche strategy of relying on those 911 sales is not working out so well after all, and again, not me saying it, it is porsche saying it in their financial reports.

 

[ze_shark]

And how come with most sold in 2024, they got the least money from them also in 2024?
One has to wonder. Math ain't mathing. Oh, wait... maybe it is, they sold a bunch at a loss?

I am very curious to understand the basis for your assertions, because as far as i know, there is none ?

 

[chun]

I am very curious to understand the basis for your assertions, because as far as i know, there is none ?

It's just assumption / deductions on my part, you are correct.

911 in 2019 was selling at a profit margin of 47%, which contributed 29% of Porsche’s revenue.

• 2019:
  • Total Revenue: €28.518 Billion
  • Profit Margin: 16.2% (€4.623 Billion operating profit)
• 2024:
  • Total Revenue: projected full-year revenue: €38-40 Billion
  • Profit Margin: 14.1%

Profit margin going down for the whole company, despite increased sells for the 911, would indicate that the car with the heights impact on their revenue and the car with the highest profit margin is not so profitable anymore

Ferrari is experiencing growth, EV sales are growing, number of cars sold in china is growing.
Only for German automakers things are going down, despite increased sells, as you point out.

But as I commented above:

Anyway, this discussion is mostly about EV, and the Taycan. And the point was that Porsche strategy of relying on those 911 sales is not working out so well after all, and again, not me saying it, it is porsche saying it in their financial reports.

 

[ze_shark]

Come on. It can mean a million things.
How much is the China downsizing is costing them for instance ?
Why would Porsche have pushed 911 volumes unprofitably in a transition year to 992.2 ?

 

[simcity]

I don't think it's necessarily an EV issue, I think it's a Taycan issue (high price / depreciation / poor reputation for reliability).

Agreed.

The Chinese are ready and willing to start eating all the Euro makers lunch here. The current product suite might not suit everyone's taste, but folks should be under no illusions they are making massive strides in product development. They are already world leaders in battery tech.

The Japanse makers are moribund. Clinging to ICE / Hybrids and hydrogen as a saviour. Poor choices.

 

[chun]

How much is the China downsizing is costing them for instance ?

Well not so much, as everything they close is bought by Chinese brands same day pretty much.

Why would Porsche have pushed 911 volumes unprofitably in a transition year to 992.2 ?

To reduce the amount of cars that sit on lots deprecating, in a market that is moving fast? To follow their strategy of doubling down on 911 sales, due to not competitive products in EV category?

Why are Porsche downsizing in China, if 911 is doing so well? Surely, it should continue selling well there, as it is not EV, so not so much competition.

The Chinese market is a red herring to all the markets. People don't value what Porsche is offering anymore, certainly not at the prices Porsche is selling them at. And that mentality is not exclusive to China.

Sure, it could mean a million things, but when so much of your profits are tied down to 1 model line, and profits go down, usually means that the profit for that model line is also going down.

If it were 5% of their profits being tied down to 911, I wouldn't think this. But when it's close to 30%, the story changes.

Porsche is doubling down on the 911 sales, as they can't compete in the increasing EV market. And in the first year of this doubling down, 2024, where they sold most 911s, they have smallest profit margins ever.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Trump's freeze on investment in charging points probably not going to help sales in the USA which is already poorly served by electric infrastructure and heavily driven by petrodollars.

Although the publicity might discourage some prospective EV buyers, should Trump succeed in somewhat halting any further NEVI expansion, that will help the charging infrastructure here: the sooner gov't-mandated (e.g., VW's punishment for Dieselgate, for which EA is the punishment delivered upon all of us) and gov't-subsidized networks are replaced by companies that actually have their own skin in the game, the sooner we'll have stations with more than four plugs, and reliability that is actually ... reliable.

 

[RAHRCR]

Wow 16 years of growth and 1 year down 3%.

Amazing how a bit of data cuts through the hysteria. Well done ?

 

[f1eng]

I seem to remember a Porsche 911 cost around £7500 when I was a schoolboy.
When Porsche developed the first Cayenne SUV it was because they were not able to sell enough 911s to be profitable and if they have been profitable in more recent years it is because they have become, relatively, massively more expensive than they were.

I used to quite fancy a 911 but the first test drive I had (a 993 I liked the styling) it was disappointingly slow compared to the TVR Griffith I was driving at the time (a crude but light fun car) so I didn't get one.
The turbo version of the 993 was super quick if driving flat out but hopelessly laggy for every day driving so I didn't get one of them either.

I have been unimpressed by lag in every turbocharged car I have driven, maybe the new 911 GTS will be good with the electric motor-generator in the turbo, I would expect it to be, but they are also disappointingly big nowadays IMO, so still a no from me.

My Taycan is perfect for me

 

[JonnyG]

Love my Taycan. Hate Trump.