"Porsche woes mount after botched bet on electric sports cars" - 4 articles

[Tooney]

• Porsche confirmed plans for new models with PHEV and internal combustion engines.
• The company is also expanding their Sonderwunsch and Exclusive Manufaktur programs.
• Porsche sales fell 3% last year and the company is expecting another decline in 2025.

If that wasn’t bad enough, Porsche is expecting a “market-induced” drop in sales for 2025. The automaker also forecasted sales revenues of €39-40 ($40.2-41.3) billion for the year.

Porsche deliveries fell by more than 9,500 units last year and the company has previously pointed to China’s “continuing challenging economic situation.” The company blamed this for sagging Panamera sales, which were off by 13%.

Investors weren’t happy and Porsche AG stock closed down 6.45 % to €55.94 ($57.78) per share in Frankfurt.
Porsche Sales Dip Looms, But New Gas And Hybrid Models Are Coming

Porsche AG is falling further off track from lofty targets set during its splashy stock listing two years ago, with costs mounting from executives having misjudged how eager sports-car buyers were to go electric.

The 911 maker’s profit margin will slump to as low as 10% this year, half the 20% level management floated before an initial public offering that raised around €9.4 billion ($9.8 billion). The stock dropped Friday to a new low since the IPO, plunging as much as 8%.

At around €50 billion, Porsche’s market value is now less than half what it was in May 2023. The steep decline heaps more pressure on Chief Executive Officer Oliver Blume, who runs both Porsche and Volkswagen AG. Porsche indicated this past weekend that the supervisory board likely will oust both its chief financial officer and sales chief.
. . .
In a knock-on effect of Porsche’s disappointing outlook, the holding company majority owned by the billionaire Porsche-Piëch family said late Thursday that it now expects to book an even bigger impairment on the carrying value of its investment in the carmaker.

Porsche Automobil Holding SE said the impairment could be in the €2.5 billion to €3.5 billion range. Back in December, the holding company was bracing for a €1 billion to €2 billion setback.
Porsche woes mount after botched bet on electric sports cars

Porsche shares tumble as carmaker warns cost of new models to dent 2025 margins

Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche Aktiengesellschaft presents preliminary figures for the full year 2024 and key figures for the forecast for the 2025 financial year.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Wow 16 years of growth and 1 year down 3%.

 

[Fish Fingers]

My thinking is a lot depends on how much they intend to move back to ICE and how much to PHEV?

EV/PHEV sales were recently reported to be growing worldwide, particularly in China.
https://www.euronews.com/business/2...es-surge-as-china-demand-boosts-market-growth

I don't think it's necessarily an EV issue, I think it's a Taycan issue (high price / depreciation / poor reputation for reliability).

So are they making a major pivot based on flawed assumptions, when it's actually a problem of there own making?

I know a lot on here (me included) wouldn't generally go back to ICE and I doubt the younger generations will.
Surely electric is the future (enentually)?

Not long ago they were going to be 100% EV, except for the 911 iirc.

So now they are kicking the top management out and reversing that.

IMO, they are doubling down on a bad decision based on flawed experience (Taycan sales plummeting and cost of maintaining the fleet).

Just my 2p for what it's worth.

 

[Fish Fingers]

I think this may have a lot to do with the current decision making....

The Porsche-Piëch family, is led by Wolfgang Porsche, who chairs the supervisory boards of Porsche AG and Porsche SE (the family’s holding company)
He has grown increasingly concerned about the simmering crises at both VW and Porsche.

The family largely depends on dividends from the two companies.

 

[Dabz]

The world takes a sharp intake of breath when a carmaker is 3% down yet tech companies can burn through billions and never make a profit yet people queue up to invest. Strange world we live in (Or maybe strange financial markets).

 

[f1eng]

Trump's freeze on investment in charging points probably not going to help sales in the USA which is already poorly served by electric infrastructure and heavily driven by petrodollars.

 

[whitex]

Ok, if it's the move to EV platform that allegedly costed them the loss, how do they explain 50% loss of profit on the 911? Wait! I know! They didn't just botch the estimates of customer desire to move to EV's, but also the customer desire to stay with ICE and PHEV. Hmmm... I guess the only thing left is build hydrogen powered cars, and hopefully not get that demand wrong.

 

[f1eng]

The world takes a sharp intake of breath when a carmaker is 3% down yet tech companies can burn through billions and never make a profit yet people queue up to invest. Strange world we live in (Or maybe strange financial markets).

Financial markets are hugely influenced by rumour and fashion and seem to be interested in very short term huge gains irrespective of how, or mythical long term bonanzas which rarely have much basis in fact.

 

[whitex]

Trump's freeze on investment in charging points probably not going to help sales in the USA which is already poorly served by electric infrastructure and heavily driven by petrodollars.

Honestly, I don't think it will make much of a difference. Porsche has been losing EV sales in the US way before Trump. Market softened, all other EV makers lower prices, Porsche ups its prices. New EV's have way more features than Porsche, some even more performance features, at a fraction of the price. Gotta love Porsche strategy to limit supply too - after test driving a Macan EV few weeks back, I inquired about allocations, I was told there were none available with no known allocations coming. I'm sure in some greenhorn MBA might it meant more profits - sell less cars at higher profit margin. Of course this could all be driven by the overarching "20% profit margin" goal. Sell one car a year, 20% profit margin, goal achieved. Perhaps Porsche is aiming to go to hand assembled car model. Maybe borrow from the old exclusive car manufacturer's playbook, no new Porsche for you unless you already own one or two (buy a used ones first if you are new), very limited production, restrictions on selling the car (sell one in less than 3 years and you, or your parents, or your kids and grandkids, will never, ever, be allowed to buy a new one again).

 

[chun]

Wow 16 years of growth and 1 year down 3%.

At around €50 billion, Porsche’s market value is now less than half what it was in May 2023.

This doesn't sound like 3% only. Sounds like a problem.

 

[chun]

Everyone buying a car now goes and checks at least a review. Probably even people in their 60s.

And Porsche does not review well:
- 911 is great, but boring, german precision, it does everything but it's just not wild. That's not what you want to hear about a sports car.
- EV buyers are generally more tech inclined than most, and Porsche's EV tech is OLD. Especially when people are bombarded with 50-100 chinese car brand new models every month sporting the latest battery chemistry, design, latest software, latest cpu, latest self driving, etc.

Porsche deliveries fell by more than 9,500 units last year and the company has previously pointed to China’s “continuing challenging economic situation.”

What exactly challenging economic situation is in china? People are buying new cars, EVs, left and right, like it's candy. The fact that they are not buying Porsche doesn't mean that people don't have money, it means that your product is bad (outdated, expensive, not luxurious).

Electric vehicles accounted for nearly half, or 47.9%, of the total 22.9 million passenger cars sold in China for the year 2024.

So around 10mil or so. And Porsche doesn't even have a finger in this pie, they are at a different table.
People's expectation have changed. People have Porsche interior quality in cars at 1/10 of the price, better software, and more luxury amenities. Porsche can't expect to deliver lower quality at much higher price and succeed.

 

[Johan Meert]

Gotta love Porsche strategy to limit supply too - after test driving a Macan EV few weeks back, I inquired about allocations, I was told there were none available with no known allocations coming.

I don't understand the shortage of Macan EV in the US. Here in the EU they are readily available.

 

[chun]

I don't understand the shortage of Macan EV in the US. Here in the EU they are readily available.

Different market, different strategies.

US market is saturated with SUVs, even EV SUVs. And Porsche doesn't offer the best product in that category. So they are trying to drive sales via scarcity, limiting supply to give the impression of premium and how unique you will be if you buy their SUV.

In EU I don't see that many SUVs.

If Trump really puts tariffs on EU, and EU turns towards china as an economic partner, which we already don't restrict as much as USA restricts china, you can be sure Chinese car brands will be all over EU even faster than they stated last year.
And then Porsche will have competition, so they might turn to the same strategy in EU also eventually.

 

[ze_shark]

- 911 is great, but boring, german precision, it does everything but it's just not wild. That's not what you want to hear about a sports car.

That must be why the 911 had another sale record in 2024 and has no equivalent in the GT world ?

 

[Johan Meert]

That must be why the 911 had another sale record in 2024 and has no equivalent in the GT world ?

True, but a sales record with no or few profits means very little.