"Porsche woes mount after botched bet on electric sports cars" - 4 articles

[ze_shark]

The Chinese market is a red herring to all the markets. People don't value what Porsche is offering anymore, certainly not at the prices Porsche is selling them at. And that mentality is not exclusive to China.

You certainly feel comfortable projecting your bad takes to build a scaffolding of baseless assertions.

China is a leading indicator for nothing but China, but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

In Switzerland, unit sales are at a record high:

Gee, the swiss surely like boring.

But I guess that you will keep on arguing somehow that these consumers only buy them to parade downtown (maybe a case of projection ?) and will jump to Xpengs and Nios as soon as they are able to ?

2025 guidance is weak. Is it because of gross margins, or is t because of an increase in OPEX/CAPEX due to now well publicized product planning changes ? And one time restructuring costs in China ?

EDIT we do know that there is an 800m EUR increase in expenditures for " expansion of the product portfolio to include additional vehicle models with combustion engines or plug-in hybrids, the expansion of the special and exclusive manufactory and adjustments to the corporate organization. Expenses in particular relating to vehicle development and in connection with battery activities in Porsche’s own subsidiaries".
800m/3B=a fat 25% shave on operating profits. So much for 911 margins.

Nobody knows for certain, and won't until 2024 earnings are presented. Buf if Porsche bad bad bad and 911 boring and China best at everything, then you get to your posts.

 

[chun]

You certainly feel comfortable projecting your bad takes to build a scaffolding of baseless assertions.

China is a leading indicator for nothing but China, but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

In Switzerland, unit sales are at a record high:

Gee, the swiss surely like boring.

But I guess that you will keep on arguing somehow that these consumers only buy them to parade downtown (maybe a case of projection ?) and will jump to Xpengs and Nios as soon as they are able to ?

2025 guidance is weak. Is it because of gross margins, or is t because of an increase in OPEX/CAPEX due to now well publicized product planning changes ? And one time restructuring costs in China ?

EDIT we do know that there is an 800m EUR increase in expenditures for " expansion of the product portfolio to include additional vehicle models with combustion engines or plug-in hybrids, the expansion of the special and exclusive manufactory and adjustments to the corporate organization. Expenses in particular relating to vehicle development and in connection with battery activities in Porsche’s own subsidiaries".
800m/3B=a fat 25% shave on operating profits. So much for 911 margins.

Nobody knows for certain, and won't until 2024 earnings are presented. Buf if Porsche bad bad bad and 911 boring and China best at everything, then you get to your posts.

I don't know why do you feel the need to throw personal attacks, but sure.
Yes, sure, the biggest car market in the world is not an indication of anything.
Let's just agree to disagree, why don't we, and we'll see how Porsche evolves in 2025. So far projections don;t look good.

 

[ForeverWild]

Ok, if it's the move to EV platform that allegedly costed them the loss, how do they explain 50% loss of profit on the 911? Wait! I know! They didn't just botch the estimates of customer desire to move to EV's, but also the customer desire to stay with ICE and PHEV. Hmmm... I guess the only thing left is build hydrogen powered cars, and hopefully not get that demand wrong.

They’re pricing their cars too high. I love my Taycan Turbo but over $200k a copy is steep. 911’s are also up there.

 

[Hirschaj]

moribund

I totally had to look this word up. I feel dumber and smarter at the same time. ?‍?

 

[Tooney]

Good News!
Although Porsche-Piech family holding company expects write-downs in its Porsche and VW investments to total 24 billion euros ($24.7 billion), cash flow will not be impacted.

Porsche SE expects impairments to nearly double on Porsche AG stake

Porsche Automobil Holding SE (Porsche SE), the holding company of Porsche AG, forecasts that impairments on its stake in the luxury carmaker will nearly double, reaching between €2.5bn ($2.58bn) and €3.5bn ($3.63bn).​

​

Earlier, Porsche SE expected impairment in range of €1bn to €2bn.​

​

The firm also anticipates write-downs related to its top shareholding in Volkswagen to potentially reach €20bn, expanding the previously expected range of €7bn to €20bn.​

​

The expected impairments on Porsche AG's stake are set to influence Porsche SE's annual financial outcomes, however “to a lower extent”.​

​

Despite these impairments, Porsche SE said it will not impact cash flow.​

 

[slothinker]

The Taycan is major achievement in automotive history IMO but Porsche created way, way too many models and flavors which necessitated setting the overall base price at, perhaps, 20% higher than it should have been … then all the options and more expensive models had to follow suit. Now there is massive depreciation as supply has caught up with demand (plus worrisome recalls) which has lead to fewer interested buyers in the U.S. and Europe. I can see why the top leadership at Porsche is being moved aside.

 

[SHM]

You certainly feel comfortable projecting your bad takes to build a scaffolding of baseless assertions.

China is a leading indicator for nothing but China, but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

In Switzerland, unit sales are at a record high:

Gee, the swiss surely like boring.

But I guess that you will keep on arguing somehow that these consumers only buy them to parade downtown (maybe a case of projection ?) and will jump to Xpengs and Nios as soon as they are able to ?

2025 guidance is weak. Is it because of gross margins, or is t because of an increase in OPEX/CAPEX due to now well publicized product planning changes ? And one time restructuring costs in China ?

EDIT we do know that there is an 800m EUR increase in expenditures for " expansion of the product portfolio to include additional vehicle models with combustion engines or plug-in hybrids, the expansion of the special and exclusive manufactory and adjustments to the corporate organization. Expenses in particular relating to vehicle development and in connection with battery activities in Porsche’s own subsidiaries".
800m/3B=a fat 25% shave on operating profits. So much for 911 margins.

Nobody knows for certain, and won't until 2024 earnings are presented. Buf if Porsche bad bad bad and 911 boring and China best at everything, then you get to your posts.

If 911 sales are up (at a total), but profit is down 50%, something else is sucking the money out.
Maybe its all the Taycan recalls?

 

[ze_shark]

If 911 sales are up (at a total), but profit is down 50%, something else is sucking the money out.
Maybe its all the Taycan recalls?

911 sales were up in 2024, guidance for 2025 is down as a consequence of 800m in OPEX/CAPEX into unplanned product development (ICE & hybrids). That is what Porsche announced, and that number alone explains the guidance on 2025 operating margin.

The argument about gross margins is pure speculation.