[Perspective] - A happy Taycan owner road trip’s his Daughter’s Model Y…

[daveo4EV]

Thanks David for your through report and discussion. Any thoughts as to when Porsche will adopt both NACS (or a workable adapter solution) and provide access to the Tesla Supercharger network in North America?

no idea - if I had to predict VW/Audi/Porsche will be last to the table if ever on this topic - supercharger access (via adapter) may be first - NACS would be even less likely IMHO - but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[McgR]

no idea - if I had to predict VW/Audi/Porsche will be last to the table if ever on this topic - supercharger access (via adapter) may be first - NACS would be even less likely IMHO - but I hope I'm wrong.

I have been using Tesla super chargers for more than a year in Europe. Availability is great. Some 30-40 charger facilities. However charging speed is reduced for non Tesla’s. They are not on the highway and twice as expensive as Ionity. For me it is usually a backup when other chargers are busy. But a really reliable one and really valuable to have it.

What we really want is the Tesla charge planner in combination with the SC network.

 

[whitex]

Tesla’s Supercharging in North America is the “Porsche” of fast charging networks

I'd say Tesla Supercharging Network is the McDonald's of charging networks - consistent, reliable, prevalent, nothing fancy.

Porsche of charging already exists, Porsche charging lounges. Work great, fancy, exclusive, very few around.

the existing CCS network is a broken down Yugo on the side of the road that no one is willing to take any responsibility for or seems to realize needs fixing.

CCS network is a result of a design by committee, collaboration between various vendors and government entities, so perhaps akin to a smog/inspection stations across the nation - inconsistent across the states, even within a state, ran by different vendors.

 

[daveo4EV]

we are approaching 1 week in the Model Y on our long distance trip (600 miles to go to get home monday Aug. 7th)

it's gratifying to me to note Tesla is still good/excellent in the areas it was when I had my last Tesla (2018 Model 3 performance) and yet has shown no progress in area where it was weak…there are various interior components that lack greatness - including one/two items that I'm going to attempt to get them to rectify under warranty (there are some "loose" interior components that need clips or securing)…

the Model Y is very very functional "box" and a great EV - but definately "mid-range" or lower in terms of comfort/quality - still a great option in my opinion vs. the plethora of mid-range/mediocre ICE SUV's - but definitely lacking higher quality "vibe" and room for improvement on the mechanical/physical side of things

I'll take a Model Y over nearly _ANY_ normal sub 50k ICE SUV - but again not ready to ditch the better quality products in favor of the Tesla…not ready to ditch my Cayenne Hybrid in favor of a Y or X - even though it kills me to drive an ICE vehicle - the Cayenne would have been a mucho better ride for this trip vs. the Model Y - what i really want is a well done full EV Cayenne ;-) but I'll need access to a reliable EV fast charging network…for the replacement for my Hybrid Cayenne…the Model Y was the correct choice for this trip, but not the ideal choice.

the Taycan with access to the Supercharger network would be nearly ideal in terms of mix of the Tesla EV world and Porsche's excellent vehicle design skills…for North America

the Model Y is a great choice for it's market segment and better to drive than most ICE vehicle

the supercharger network continues to provide a stark contrast vs. North American alternatives - and often times provides that contrast in nearly the exact same location - with supercharger's being a busy, vibrant and functional "hub" with Tesla's coming/going and getting charged - and the alternatives near by either demonstrably neglected, closed, dysfunctional or in the process of actively disappointing/frustrating/exasperating a CCS1 vehicle owner. (EA's purpose seems to be to actively discourage and punish EV ownership).

In the end I don't think I personally learned anything new on this trip - but rather confirmed some common perspectives…

• Tesla makes a mediocre car - but that maybe ok because that's true of MOST cars - it fit's nicely in that segment and in my mind a mediocre EV is better than a mediocre ICE - I'll take Tesla's crap over any/most nearly-all ICE mid-ranged SUV's - because it's an EV and EV wins in my opinion.
• supercharger network is vastly better than the CCS1 network in North America - and growing and better every month - CCS1 network demonstrated it's 2nd class standing at every opportunity in the I-5 segment.
• Taycan is a better car - and I greatly miss much of it's driver features and Porsche's luxury touches
• I prefer Tesla's software chops vs. posche's software chops but Porsche is acceptable.
• Range is about the same for the two cars in actual I-5 north/south use - even though Tesla lies and claims the Model Y could go further - it never did - I end up needing to stop in about the same places (and in some cases the same parking lot)

the biggest lesson however isn't with the cars…I got to spend time in the great PNW area, see Friday Harbor on San Juan island, saw my two daughters, my brother in law, dinner with friend in seattle and portland, spent time away from home with my wife, and met some fellow Taycan owners - in the end I'll forget the cars but remember the experiences and the people...

I really enjoy'd the trip - was lacking range anxiety because ya'know - but was refreshed and encouraged with the location, weather, and new people I met on the trip and the familiy I got to spend time with - and ultimately we have a cars to connect to world around us…and in some cases some distance from our normal lcoations…

I enjoy'd the trip, miss the Taycan as a my vehicle of choice, but do not regret the Model Y because of it's cargo capacity and greater mobility - it was the right choice for various reasons…

I hope Porsche has a plan for a reliable/extensive EV charging network for their Products - the mobility it enables is too important to forgo with my next EV purchase - because in the end it's what enables the experiences which is what I personally value.

I will be replacing my 2021 Cayenne eHybrid with a full EV luxury SUV - it is a requirement for this car to travel some distance with minimal hassle - the accessibility, reliability of the fast charging options it works with will be a key consideration/requirement in my purchase…even I'm curious as to what brand I'll be ultimately going with…I love my porsche's - but they have to be able to get me places…

 

[Elroy]

Well written, objective and very informative. Porsche NA executives, Are you listening??

 

[Jonathan S.]

I was thinking of this thread while planning a trip yesterday to the NJ Meadowlands Mall (ski instructor continuing education event to fulfill my certification requirement, combined with visiting friends).
EA coverage is sufficient on my return trip, especially since I don’t have any family events this evening or any other reason to be in a big rush.
But charging while at the mall would have been nice.
Sure enough, 16 DCFC units. Superchargers of course.

And here are recent reviews for the nearly Ft Lee EA:
“Charger 01 and 02 does not pass 20kW, very slow but works..”
“30kwh charing speed it takes 1 90 minutes to charge from 10% to 80%. A few stations are always broken and never fixed”

 

[mikezhang31]

I went on the driving / cruise this past weekend, and unfortunately an unforeseen emergency meant we had to bail about 10 miles into it so I did more driving to the meet up point and home, than on the actual drive. So I did not get to experience the range performance for the planned 100 odd miles of spirited driving.

but the 10 or so miles of the spirited cruise amazed me. We were on some very tight back roads, and everyone else was in either miata or frs / brz. At best the CT was 2x the weight of the next heaviest car.... and the taycan kept up with ease. They probably had more fun, but I was just listening to music on car play while being amazed at how I can throw 51000lb into a corner with so much confidence.

It was like a video game, if the turn is tight just turn the steering wheel more. No drama at all. Reminded me of when I had a lotus exige and took turns driving my car vs. my friend's subaru STI on the tail of the dragon.

 

[McgR]

we are approaching 1 week in the Model Y on our long distance trip (600 miles to go to get home monday Aug. 7th)

it's gratifying to me to note Tesla is still good/excellent in the areas it was when I had my last Tesla (2018 Model 3 performance) and yet has shown no progress in area where it was weak…there are various interior components that lack greatness - including one/two items that I'm going to attempt to get them to rectify under warranty (there are some "loose" interior components that need clips or securing)…

the Model Y is very very functional "box" and a great EV - but definately "mid-range" or lower in terms of comfort/quality - still a great option in my opinion vs. the plethora of mid-range/mediocre ICE SUV's - but definitely lacking higher quality "vibe" and room for improvement on the mechanical/physical side of things

I'll take a Model Y over nearly _ANY_ normal sub 50k ICE SUV - but again not ready to ditch the better quality products in favor of the Tesla…not ready to ditch my Cayenne Hybrid in favor of a Y or X - even though it kills me to drive an ICE vehicle - the Cayenne would have been a mucho better ride for this trip vs. the Model Y - what i really want is a well done full EV Cayenne ;-) but I'll need access to a reliable EV fast charging network…for the replacement for my Hybrid Cayenne…the Model Y was the correct choice for this trip, but not the ideal choice.

the Taycan with access to the Supercharger network would be nearly ideal in terms of mix of the Tesla EV world and Porsche's excellent vehicle design skills…for North America

the Model Y is a great choice for it's market segment and better to drive than most ICE vehicle

the supercharger network continues to provide a stark contrast vs. North American alternatives - and often times provides that contrast in nearly the exact same location - with supercharger's being a busy, vibrant and functional "hub" with Tesla's coming/going and getting charged - and the alternatives near by either demonstrably neglected, closed, dysfunctional or in the process of actively disappointing/frustrating/exasperating a CCS1 vehicle owner. (EA's purpose seems to be to actively discourage and punish EV ownership).

In the end I don't think I personally learned anything new on this trip - but rather confirmed some common perspectives…

• Tesla makes a mediocre car - but that maybe ok because that's true of MOST cars - it fit's nicely in that segment and in my mind a mediocre EV is better than a mediocre ICE - I'll take Tesla's crap over any/most nearly-all ICE mid-ranged SUV's - because it's an EV and EV wins in my opinion.
• supercharger network is vastly better than the CCS1 network in North America - and growing and better every month - CCS1 network demonstrated it's 2nd class standing at every opportunity in the I-5 segment.
• Taycan is a better car - and I greatly miss much of it's driver features and Porsche's luxury touches
• I prefer Tesla's software chops vs. posche's software chops but Porsche is acceptable.
• Range is about the same for the two cars in actual I-5 north/south use - even though Tesla lies and claims the Model Y could go further - it never did - I end up needing to stop in about the same places (and in some cases the same parking lot)

the biggest lesson however isn't with the cars…I got to spend time in the great PNW area, see Friday Harbor on San Juan island, saw my two daughters, my brother in law, dinner with friend in seattle and portland, spent time away from home with my wife, and met some fellow Taycan owners - in the end I'll forget the cars but remember the experiences and the people...

I really enjoy'd the trip - was lacking range anxiety because ya'know - but was refreshed and encouraged with the location, weather, and new people I met on the trip and the familiy I got to spend time with - and ultimately we have a cars to connect to world around us…and in some cases some distance from our normal lcoations…

I enjoy'd the trip, miss the Taycan as a my vehicle of choice, but do not regret the Model Y because of it's cargo capacity and greater mobility - it was the right choice for various reasons…

I hope Porsche has a plan for a reliable/extensive EV charging network for their Products - the mobility it enables is too important to forgo with my next EV purchase - because in the end it's what enables the experiences which is what I personally value.

I will be replacing my 2021 Cayenne eHybrid with a full EV luxury SUV - it is a requirement for this car to travel some distance with minimal hassle - the accessibility, reliability of the fast charging options it works with will be a key consideration/requirement in my purchase…even I'm curious as to what brand I'll be ultimately going with…I love my porsche's - but they have to be able to get me places…

Interesting. Porsche and even VW are not big enough to create a network of SC like Tesla did out of nothing. VW is currently having trouble keeping its head above water because of some bad EV decisions. Second: do we want every company to create their own SC network? It would be more practical to have Tesla like charging hubs.

Ideal would be that Tesla would sell their charging and route planning software to other brands and open all SC to all brands and make them long distance travelers like Tesla. However probably nobody would buy a Tesla anymore. I wonder if the charging software and SC network may be the most valuable part of the Tesla company.

 

[snstevens]

@daveo4EV - I really appreciate your effort to share this trip along with pictures and perspective.

I was inspired! I decided to send another email to my Executive Case Specialist contact at PCNA (the one that @Jonathan S. suggested might be a ChatGPT Bot ?). No clue what sort of response I'll get, but if I get one I'll let you know.

<Contact Name>​

I know you must be busy, but in the likely event that you don’t keep track of the Taycan Forum online, I wanted to share a recent post. Dave is a very satisfied Taycan owner and long-time EV enthusiast. In the post he talks about taking his daughter’s Tesla Model Y on a road trip. ​

​

I suggest that this post should be required reading for Porsche management and designers. Personally, I’m a bit afraid you are going to lose momentum in the EV space with business decisions (e.g., NACS adoption, Tesla SuC access) being made by people who think the Porsche brand trumps what is becoming acknowledged to be “common sense”. ​

​

With that in mind I think Dave’s final two sentences should be a wake-up call — ​

Respectfully,​

​

Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but I'm hopeful that Porsche will do the right thing...

Today I received this reply. While there is no news regarding NACS or SuC, I was pleased there was no use of ChatGPT to craft the response ?

Good Morning Mr. Stevens,​

​

Thank you for providing this information and your recommendations.​

​

The appropriate teams are actively working, but I cannot provide updates at this time about Porsche’s direction regarding the NACS standard, and possible access to the Tesla SuperCharger network.​

​

Please check the Porsche Newsroom site periodically for any news regarding future partnerships and/or innovations.​

​

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/company.html​

​

Kind Regards,​

<Name>​

 

[AlterZgo]

I tried very very hard to buy a Tesla for my first EV. I test drove a Model Y and a Model S. Both cars had serious shortcomings. The Model Y's seats were the worst seats I've ever sat in in any car. Even my diminuitive 5 ft tall 105 lb wife said the seats were ridicuslously narrow on the bottom and completely unacceptable. The Model S was an ergonomic nightmare. The touch button turn signal and, even worse, the tiny touch button horn were terrible. Then the car itself was molasses slow. I know this couldn't be true b/c the prior Model S's I've driven were all insansely quick. yet this Model S at an official Tesla test drive facility, was ridiculoulsly slow. The build quality and materials were of that of a $30K car, not an $80K - $120K car that the Model S purports to be. After driving BMWs and Porsches for the last 10+ yrs, I can't accept the exceptionally cheap feeling materials on a Tesla and certainly not for a $90K Model S.

Utlimately, I WISH I could accept a Tesla and take advantage of it's awesome supercharger network. However, for my use case, I ordered a Taycan CT 4S. Yes, it's vastly more expensive than a Model S, but there's no way I'm going to dump $90K into a car that I would immediately regret as soon as I took delivery.

Finally, I don't plan on road tripping the Taycan. It will be used primarily by my wife and as our around town family car and will likely be charged 99% of the time at home. So, I think I'll be fine on charging and maybe in a few yrs, Tesla's supercharger network will be opened up to Porsche.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Today I received this reply. While there is no news regarding NACS or SuC, I was pleased there was no use of ChatGPT to craft the response ? […]

I preferred the AI version! ?

 

[Jonathan S.]

[…] Ideal would be that Tesla would sell their charging and route planning software to other brands and open all SC to all brands and make them long distance travelers like Tesla. However probably nobody would buy a Tesla anymore. I wonder if the charging software and SC may be the most valuable part of the Tesla company.

Tesla next spring is already planning to open up its ~12k 250kW V3 Superchargers in North America to CCS1 EVs from the companies that have agreed to Tesla’s terms. Which have not yet been publicly revealed.
The remaining holdouts of VAG, BMW, Kiaundesus, and Toyota/Subaru will not be very appealing to any potential EV purchasers who care about DCFC if the Tesla Supercharger network next spring ends up being limited to only those marques who have agreements with Tesla.

 

[daveo4EV]

post #12 updated with final complete charging log...

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...’s-his-daughter’s-model-y….16745/#post-257406

 

[Jhenson29]

Finally, I don't plan on road tripping the Taycan. It will be used primarily by my wife and as our around town family car and will likely be charged 99% of the time at home. So, I think I'll be fine on charging and maybe in a few yrs, Tesla's supercharger network will be opened up to Porsche.

That’s basically my situation. Taycan is my wife’s DD. Only charge at home. Two years and 26k miles; no issues; no complaints. Would 100% buy again. Although I’m trying to her talk to into an electric 718 when it comes out; but she is severely disappointed in the lack of massage seats in my 911, and I’m sure the electric 718 won’t have them either, so I think it will just be another Taycan after this one for us. Probably wait for 2nd gen to trade in though.

Maybe I can talk her into a Turbo this time.
Or debadge it and just don’t tell her what it is.

“Yeah honey, they really pepped up this 4S!”

 

[whitex]

Maybe I can talk her into a Turbo this time.
Or debadge it and just don’t tell her what it is.

“Yeah honey, they really pepped up this 4S!”

You don’t debadge, you rebadge as a 4S. Depending on your wife’s familiarity with the Taycan lineup, it could be as easy as a rear badge and door sills, or as complicated and changing the front lip and reprogram the PCM. Order Porsche headrest crests, black calipers, and wheels which mostly cover the rotors just in case.