[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[chun]

I'm not worried about when they started making cars - I'm worried about when they started making/understanding brakes

with the rise of ubiquitous information it's hard to have a technology "mote" - Porsche's secret sauce is less and less secret and the only thing separating products is time spend to get the product where it needs to be…and while that's not cheap it's a surmountable problem if you're determined enough.

the Chinese are starting from scratch but have clear goals and fewer constraints imposed by legacy processes and they understand manufacturing and have govt. subsidies - the german's lack agility and have lots of accumulated constraints (supply chain, labor contracts, investors, perspectives, reverence for the past, etc) from 100's of years of advanced watch making…

Porsche is analog - Tesla/Lucid/Rivian/Chinese/other's are digital…

digital kills analog (or at best moves analog from mainstream to niche)…

we'll see how this plays out - but it's not appearing that VW/Audi/Porsche fully understand the game they are playing…

And if porsche thinks they still have time to figure it out, they don’t.

Key Dates & Plans
• International shipments start in 2027

Xiaomi President Lu Weibing confirmed that the company aims to begin exporting cars overseas by 2027, with Europe being the first target market .

• Limited test sales/shipments in next few years

They’re building an overseas team—hiring market‑research, sales, after‑sales, and autonomous‑driving experts—and plan small batch test sales in select regions over the next couple of years .

• Strategic aim: before 2030

At a Paris showcase Lei Jun said the goal is to have Xiaomi-branded cars available in Europe before 2030, though an expedited rollout is possible

They are planning to use and expand their 100 stores in europe as sales points, and expand it to 10.000 worldwide by 2030.
2027 is start Sales in Europe as first international market, homeground of Porsche.
Xiaomi's R&D center is already in Europe, in Munich

 

[f1eng]

Did you notice the top speed?!? 214.8 mph! ?

And from a company who just started making cars just a few years ago…

A high top speed is one of the easiest parameters to achieve. It just needs power and, preferably, low drag.
Doing it whilst retaining dynamic stability and brakes is the difficult bit.

 

[Der-Schwabe]

A high top speed is one of the easiest parameters to achieve. It just needs power and, preferably, low drag.
Doing it whilst retaining dynamic stability and brakes is the difficult bit.

Hear, hear! It would seem that this higher top speed made the difference beyond the Doettinger Hoehe (before both were 'Even-Stevens').

https://viewsync.net/watch?v=I2EjtbqkZIU&t=2.94&v=2Lg7BXcZAg8&t=15&mode=solo

 

[chun]

A high top speed is one of the easiest parameters to achieve. It just needs power and, preferably, low drag.
Doing it whilst retaining dynamic stability and brakes is the difficult bit.

"It just needs power" is quite reductive, no?

If it were so easy, Porsche would have made a 911 with 2000hp, no? The same is valid in EV world, to make more power required for higher top speed, you need a better: battery, inverter, motor, power delivery lines - whole electric architecture basically, aka whole drive train in EV world.

Now, personally, I don't think a 4 door ever needs this much power. But it proves that an automkaer that started "buliding" cars in late 2021 is already beating Porsche there; and at 1/4 of the price (real price, no china goverment money: https://carnewschina.com/2025/05/28/xiaomi-loses-900-usd-for-every-car-sold-in-the-first-quarter/ )

With all the delays and problems Porsche had with the 718 EV, I wouldn't be surprised if Xiaomi not only outpowers/delivers better technology than Porsche in a 2 door sports EV, but they might even bring one to market before Porsche.

 

[Wivenhoe]

Out of interest - is the $ 74K after tariffs ?

 

[Zcd1]

"It just needs power" is quite reductive, no?

If it were so easy, Porsche would have made a 911 with 2000hp, no? The same is valid in EV world, to make more power required for higher top speed, you need a better: battery, inverter, motor, power delivery lines - whole electric architecture basically, aka whole drive train in EV world…

Well said.

It’s interesting to me that the Taycan Turbo GT’s top speed is either 180 or 190 mph, depending on trim.

Model S Plaid and Lucid Air Sapphire both achieve higher top speeds and similar or better acceleration despite not having a 2-speed transmission, which suggest that their motor technology must be more advanced.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Well said.

It’s interesting to me that the Taycan Turbo GT’s top speed is either 180 or 190 mph, depending on trim.

Model S Plaid and Lucid Air Sapphire both achieve higher top speeds and similar or better acceleration despite not having a 2-speed transmission, which suggest that their motor technology must be more advanced.

Plaid and Sapphire motors rev to 20,000 RPM and they have 3 motors.

Turbo GT is 18,500 on the rear motor with the 2 speed transmission.

Sapphire motor is advanced, Plaid is just wrapped in Carbon fiber which is not novel or advanced.

Mercedes has an electric that can go over 100,000 rpm

 

[Zcd1]

Plaid and Sapphire motors rev to 20,000 RPM and they have 3 motors.

Turbo GT is 18,500 on the rear motor with the 2 speed transmission.

Sapphire motor is advanced, Plaid is just wrapped in Carbon fiber which is not novel or advanced.

3 motors vs 2 is immaterial.

Parse it any way you like; the fact remains that the Turbo GT lags Lucid, Tesla and evidently Xiaomi in overall EV drivetrain capability.

That doesn’t align with the rest of Porsche’s DNA…

 

[Der-Schwabe]

3 motors vs 2 is immaterial.

Parse it any way you like; the fact remains that the Turbo GT lags Lucid, Tesla and evidently Xiaomi in overall EV drivetrain capability.

That doesn’t align with the rest of Porsche’s DNA…

Are you confident about 3x e-motors vs 2x e-motors are immaterial? So, do you content that Tesla & Xiaomi (to take the Nuerburgring Nordschleife as an example) would have delivered the same result with just 2x e-motors? I very much doubt that. As I demonstrated above (post # 303), it shows that only on after the Doettinger Hoehe, namely the ~ 1.3 mile straight, did the Xiaomi put some distance between itself and the TGT. --- 3x e-motors vs 2x e-motors reminds me of the old ICE adage "there is no replacement for displacement"...

 

[f1eng]

Are you confident about 3x e-motors vs 2x e-motors are immaterial? So, do you content that Tesla & Xiaomi (to take the Nuerburgring Nordschleife as an example) would have delivered the same result with just 2x e-motors? I very much doubt that. As I demonstrated above (post # 303), it shows that only on after the Doettinger Hoehe, namely the ~ 1.3 mile straight, did the Xiaomi put some distance between itself and the TGT. --- 3x e-motors vs 2x e-motors reminds me of the old ICE adage "there is no replacement for displacement"...

It is the total power that counts, not how many motors.

 

[Der-Schwabe]

It is the total power that counts, not how many motors.

The Model S Plaid gained a 3rd e-motor over the standard Model S dual e-motor design in 2021. The Xiaomi SU7 Max has 2x e-motors, the SU7 Ultra has 3x e-motors. In both cases, the performance versions seem to have needed a 3rd e-motor to achieve the increased peak power...

 

[Mr.Smith]

The Model S Plaid gained a 3rd e-motor over the standard Model S dual e-motor design in 2021. The Xiaomi SU7 Max has 2x e-motors, the SU7 Ultra has 3x e-motors. In both cases, the performance versions seem to have needed a 3rd e-motor to achieve the increased peak power...

The 3 motors also helps with the way they they implement the limited slip differential. Taycan is more analog.

Only when Attack Mode was engaged was the Turbo GT getting 975hp peak.
It's 550hp delta

 

[Der-Schwabe]

The 3 motors also helps with the way they they implement the limited slip differential. Taycan is more analog.

Only when Attack Mode was engaged was the Turbo GT getting 975hp peak.
It's 550hp delta

True. One could argue that the peak power would only be needed on long straights of more than 1 mile length otherwise it has little significance as the Nuerbugring lap comparison shows nicely.

 

[f1eng]

The Model S Plaid gained a 3rd e-motor over the standard Model S dual e-motor design in 2021. The Xiaomi SU7 Max has 2x e-motors, the SU7 Ultra has 3x e-motors. In both cases, the performance versions seem to have needed a 3rd e-motor to achieve the increased peak power...

It is much cheaper and easier to add more motors you already make to get the power for a statement model than design, tool and manufacture a bigger one for a small production run.
2 motors on an axle give more freedom on how you implement torque vectoring.

It may be easier to cool 3 small motors than one big one too but what is needed for top speed is power.

 

[Zcd1]

…2 motors on an axle give more freedom on how you implement torque vectoring.

Indeed, plus the engineering challenge of adding a second motor on an axle that already includes a multi-speed transmission would also be significant.

Porsche likely didn’t think it would be worth the effort.