Tesla Price Drop

[Mr.Smith]

There is certainly a bit of a collapse on demand for EVs which is sad to see. In the UK I saw the first 0% finance offer from a manufacturer that I have seen in ages. From Cupra (sun brand of vw group) for their EV the Born. Which is a great car.

Other than a niche group like Taycan owners, EVs are a subsidy and regulatory play.
Majority of people are not going to spend more for a car that has limited capabilities (range and refueling)

The biggest EV market in the world, China is fueled by subsidies, EU is forcing EVs by slowly banning & taxing ICE.
In the US market OEMs are now slashing prices and to make them cheaper than ICE or they won't move.

Tesla lost the luxury market to Taycan and now every other OEM in this space. They are now going after the lower end market by monthly price drops and incentives on the only car they sell in volume (Model Y).

Per Musk Tesla is on track to zero margins with a razor/razor blade model. Make no money on cars, make all the money on Robotaxis. Not a joke

 

[Amelio]

Sorry for that interaction; it appears to have stemmed from jealousy.

When faced with such situations, I often recall James Clear's response from his book "Atomic Habits": simply saying, "you might be right." This approach can save you a lot of time when dealing with such individuals.

Out of curiosity, where did you park? Was it in a less favorable area of town? In Canada, I'm thinking of places like Walmart or Costco.

Many of my friends haven't embraced my decision to switch to an electric vehicle. It's regrettable, but I don't regret my choice to go electric and am searching for a more supportive friends. The long family road trips I've taken in my EV have been transformative, experiences I wouldn't have had in a traditional ICE car.

Tell me about it. The other day I’m coming back to my car from the store and some older lady is loading her car next to mine and says “oh, I was just admiring your car. It’s beautiful… just too bad it’s an electric”. And then goes into saying “do you know how destructive manufacturing these cars are for the environment” and “aren’t you afraid it’s going to blow up”. Full on anti EV rant. Never experienced that before.

 

[mikezhang31]

I think Porsche made the taycan for people who are looking to get a Porsche, but likes the idea of an EV. Not someone who is cross shopping between EV brands.

 

[007]

Out of curiosity, where did you park? Was it in a less favorable area of town? In Canada, I'm thinking of places like Walmart or Costco.

I’m from So. California and never thought of Costco as the less favorable part of town… probably because I do my wine shopping there Walmart and Home Depot, understood.

Now living in Poland, out in the country, not near any big cities (100k people in the nearby town 6km away), there’s a lot of conservative, religious, right leaning folks around (ie can’t mow my lawn on Sunday for risk of being stoned to death). Very little EVs, no fast chargers, and after nearly a year of being the only taycan around, there’s now just one other one and one Audi eTron GT. On the flip side, there are at least 8 local lambos I see on a regular basis. ?‍

 

[4424]

Other than a niche group like Taycan owners, EVs are a subsidy and regulatory play.
Majority of people are not going to spend more for a car that has limited capabilities (range and refueling)

The biggest EV market in the world, China is fueled by subsidies, EU is forcing EVs by slowly banning & taxing ICE.
In the US market OEMs are now slashing prices and to make them cheaper than ICE or they won't move.

Tesla lost the luxury market to Taycan and now every other OEM in this space. They are now going after the lower end market by monthly price drops and incentives on the only car they sell in volume (Model Y).

Per Musk Tesla is on track to zero margins with a razor/razor blade model. Make no money on cars, make all the money on Robotaxis. Not a joke

Well I'm not a musk fan, what you said is not entirely true. On an earnings call musk said they will lower their margins to be razor thin if necessary and they will make all of their profit from over the air purchases and charging. That includes people who rent full self-driving for $200 a month, pay $10 a month for premium connectivity, charging, etc. He never said they were going to rely on the robotaxi which I agree is a joke for at least the next 5 years.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Well I'm not a musk fan, what you said is not entirely true. On an earnings call musk said they will lower their margins to be razor thin if necessary and they will make all of their profit from over the air purchases and charging. That includes people who rent full self-driving for $200 a month, pay $10 a month for premium connectivity, charging, etc. He never said they were going to rely on the robotaxi which I agree is a joke for at least the next 5 years.

Full self driving is not real and has very little subscribers.
Part of self driving is the Robotaxi fleet. The reason you can't buy out a Tesla lease is because part of the ABS covenants states the returned cars will be part of the Robotaxi fleet.

There is no money in buying wholesale electricity and selling retail.

To sell a profitless car to make a profit on non existent products is the business model.
There are also 2 factories at 50% capacity.

 

[4424]

Full self driving is not real and has very little subscribers.
Part of self driving is the Robotaxi fleet. The reason you can't buy out a Tesla lease is because part of the ABS covenants states the returned cars will be part of the Robotaxi fleet.

There is no money in buying wholesale electricity and selling retail.

To sell a profitless car to make a profit on non existent products is the business model.
There are also 2 factories at 50% capacity.

Sounds like you listen to a lot of Fox News. Do you have any proof of the two factories at 50% capacity other than when they are doing upgrades?

We have a Taycan and a 2023 model x plaid. The model x drove me 16 mi home from my hockey game the other night without any interventions other than me stepping on the accelerator because it was being too cautious. Granted, it was late at night so there wasn't a lot of cars on the road but it is still very impressive. You clearly have not ridden in one recently or maybe ever.

I like to deal in facts so I think our conversation is probably over....

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[stoneunhenged]

Life is short. I don't have to hate Tesla to like my Taycan. I traded my Model 3 Performance when I bought my Taycan, and the Model 3 was a great entry-level EV. It actually did some things better than the Taycan like using your phone as a key (which is much more convenient). But, the Taycan is a driver's car, and Teslas are by and large for people who want drama-free transportation and aren't nutty about cars. The world is a big place. There is room for both.

 

[f1eng]

I think Porsche made the taycan for people who are looking to get a Porsche, but likes the idea of an EV. Not someone who is cross shopping between EV brands.

I can only speak for myself but I am not impressed by any brand particularly and whilst a Porsche has made it onto my short list several times in the last 30 years the Taycan is the only one which made the top spot in the end.

I was looking for a quiet comfortable non-SUV with a good turn of speed when I wanted it. I already had a sports car otherwise I wouldn’t have considered anything so big and heavy.

The only alternative with a look in was a Bentley but the handling and throttle response of the Taycan were in a different league. It was an easy choice.

 

[SergeyIndy]

The OP's topic is would we see a Taycan price drop given heated competition from other EV makers such as Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid if I may add, as all I see are these almost daily feeds about price decreases and building up inventory and amped up negativity about EVs in general, and then some real people stories that bought an EV and then took off on a cross country trip with no chargers, clearly not matching their needs.

I am not sure how many Taycan buyers are looking at it as EV first if compared for price/range/network alone which is a quick losing proposition, so to me Taycan is in a different league and there is a lot of explaining has to go on by the dealer to do so. Also, my dealer has only one RWD for sale and I am not even sure how long it takes to get one new to order, I waited 13 months for mine, so this whole game of price cuts by others will not be played by Porche, if they know of buyers like myself, and actually they did say they will do another price increase this fall, so wait for that. I also do not think they are afraid to price up Macan EV high enough regardless of being so late with its release, but my SA said that their super excited customer base of 40 dropped down to 4 buyers who are in for the first Macan EV purchase.

The price drops are real by others, and I see so many new EVs around with Tesla overwhelming the area, but also, I see different Rivians and Ionics every day with very happy drivers. I also saw a few different Lucid sedans in the summer but not recently. I welcome that and wave at the Rivian drivers and some wave back. However, my impression, anywhere I go, no one really sees my Taycan as an EV, it looks like an exotic car and they do not know what it is and try to figure it out by going around and looking at what the back says, or may be it is the stunning color, not sure.

 

[DirtyPop]

One of the main factors in buying every car I've owned was how it looked. For me I want to get excited and appreciate the lines of my car every time I walk up to it. I hand wash all of my cars once a week and with my '22 GTS I marvel at how good looking it is, every day. I live in Silicon Valley and it is shocking how many Teslas there are on the road. My wife and I will play a game while driving on the freeway where we count how many Teslas we see in a 1 min period. I think the most ever was 31. I have only seen maybe 5-8 Taycans in my area in the year and a half of owning one.

I think Tesla really missed an opportunity to fully redesign the Model S when they did the Plaid. The S is basically the same exterior design as the original car was 11 years ago. Visually why would anyone buy that. Yes, the tech is amazing, the supercharging network is 1000 times better than the bullshit EA network, but on the outside you are basically buying a car from 2012.

 

[jkoya]

One of the main factors in buying every car I've owned was how it looked. For me I want to get excited and appreciate the lines of my car every time I walk up to it. I hand wash all of my cars once a week and with my '22 GTS I marvel at how good looking it is, every day. I live in Silicon Valley and it is shocking how many Teslas there are on the road. My wife and I will play a game while driving on the freeway where we count how many Teslas we see in a 1 min period. I think the most ever was 31. I have only seen maybe 5-8 Taycans in my area in the year and a half of owning one.

On a trip to get pizza in St. Helena, we counted 30 (I think..) White Model Ys between Davis and Fairfield. Not in the 1 minute time frame though....

 

[Mr.Smith]

Sounds like you listen to a lot of Fox News. Do you have any proof of the two factories at 50% capacity other than when they are doing upgrades?

We have a Taycan and a 2023 model x plaid. The model x drove me 16 mi home from my hockey game the other night without any interventions other than me stepping on the accelerator because it was being too cautious. Granted, it was late at night so there wasn't a lot of cars on the road but it is still very impressive. You clearly have not ridden in one recently or maybe ever.

I like to deal in facts so I think our conversation is probably over....

Enjoy your weekend.

I'm sure you looked over the latest 10-Q to see factory outputs and utilization for Berlin and Austin? These are newly built factories so what is being upgrading? They only build 1 car in those factories, the Model Y and few hand made Cybertrucks in Austin.

Your FSD is Level 2, not even Level 3 because you are required to pay attention and be behind the wheel.
You should sit in the back seat of a Waymo or Cruise to actually experience Full Self Driving. It's magic

 

[RAHRCR]

No rational Porsche owner should be triggered into justifying their vehicle purchase decision based on what Tesla/Elon is doing. One can only guess as to what he is thinking, but I am fairly certain that nothing he is doing is targeted at creating the most passionate and engaging driving experience for sports cars, passenger cars and SUVs.

*RAHRCR has been marked safe from his BS.*

 

[LongLive959]

Ugh

please don’t throw stones. I am in this scenario right now. My Model S is on its way to 10yrs….just hit 300,000km after a 2k road trip in which I supercharged 5 times each way and had zero issues

I’ve been thinking that a GTS sport turismo is a perfect replacement car. BUT it is now $80k more expensive for a showroom floor “used” (300km) GTS than a brand new Plaid.

I know everyone here is P cars or die….but that’s a big price difference. Yes it’s a soulless boat with quality issues. But it is still a beast of a car, at a red light and how it pulls on the highway. I’m not a track guy. My car has been flawless for a decade, as it was built pre-dual motor when demand was low and Teslas were actually good quality….so I don’t know how bad these newer cars are. But like I said, road tripping in my S was super easy. My only issue has been the lousy door handles.

I really want the GTS….unfortunately money IS something to consider