"VW delays new Porsche Macan EV platform, cuts jobs as software struggles persist" - Article

[RingoDingo]

As a petrolhead of over 50 years standing I seem to have an unusual point of view.

I chose the Taycan because an electric motor is SO much better for a road car than an IC engine, the downside is battery, admittedly, but overall much better IME.

I have had a lot of nice cars over the years and have no interest in ever using an IC engined car for anything other than short fun trips and track days.
It probably does need to be an old one or one designed for fun like Gordon Murray’s offerings because modern efficient IC engines are high boost low revving turbos which I hate with a deep burning passion. They sound awful and have uninteresting throttle response.

The one place I don’t see as good for electric (or hybrid sadly) is motor sport where most of the benefits are not needed and the downside ruins the chassis. I am not the only ex-Formula 1 (or current) designer who believe this but money, money, money.

I have zero interest in all the gadgets you can and often do get on modern EVs (and just modern cars) but the power train and controllability I love.

The Taycan is overall the best road car I have ever driven.

Given your bona fides, it would be reasonable to assume you hated EVs, but I suspect the engineer in you overrides that and recognizes the technical and practical superiority of an electric motor for road use. I'm with you, I can't go back, and I suspect in time most of the driving population will agree with you too, once they accept it (and the technology is sufficiently mature). The people who whinge and moan about the soulless nature of EVs (most of whom seem to exist solely to post comments and write letters to car mags) are just scared that they'll lose the ability to buy cars that have naturally aspirated motors and 6 speed manuals. And I think that's unfounded... these cars will exist, including for motorsports, but they won't be the primary provider of most people's locomotive needs, and given their general inferiority for road driving, their polluting nature and their general inefficiency, they shouldn't be.

 

[f1eng]

the plastic clasd are a blessing in my case. My weeks old Cross Turismo was hit by a tourist on the rim. If it's not for the pastic, there would had been paint and surface damaged to the fender. The pastic is scratched up but they are much cheaper to replace. Long story short, i now drive even slower so other people won't be surprised.

I must admit that it is a combination of being too tight fisted to pay extra for a cosmetic mod and a fear I may scrape the wheelarch on something due to the car’s width that stopped me removing the plastic strips…

 

[BJCanadaMax]

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/all-electric/ix/sports-activity-vehicle/overview.html

drove that the other day - it's a good EV SUV…nice interior space - if this had been on the market in 2021 might not have my Cayenne Hybrid…

• excellent build quality
• will support supercharging in North America
• excellent acceleration
• better software tech
  • supports phone-as-key really really well
  • decent vehicle app
  • wireless carplay
  • snappy in car software - good displays
  • functional and some fun
• handles decent - better than decent
• RWS makes it super agile
• excellent brakes - I tested them
• has good audible options for the emotional aspect of driving
• good range
• decent fast charging speed - but not as fast a taper curve as Taycan (and presumably MacanEV)
• can buy one today…
• 11 kW AC L2 onboard charger - and a specifications page that isn't confused by the difference between max capacity of their EVSE vs. their vehicle's onbaoard charger.
• one-pedal driving option or coasting - your choice as a driver
• infotainment software is really really good vs. Porsche PCM
• kina "meh" in normal mode -but put drive mode in sport and the car comes alive - was really really a hoot

really honestly a great option vs. watching Porsche flail at digital

given the better software tech and a decent mechanicals (better than average and still german) one might say I'd prefer it over a MacanEV even _IF_ the MacanEV would ever come to market.

honestly I don't believe Porsche's heart is "in it" when it comes to EV's - they seem more focused on eFuel and making ever increasing numbers of 911 variants that are so limited normal people have no chance of getting one…

Drove the BMW i4 sedan also - was super good - lots of good things - got back in my Taycan - and while the Taycan was better - it wasn't as far ahead better as it should have been - the BMW i4 is super close to almost great - car comes alive in sport mode - and their software doesn't suck as hard and they have a clue regarding supercharging. Taycan is better - but the BMW is damn good…and given some more practical concerns vs. pure driving it might be a better choice - certainly a more affordable choice.

If i am on BMW camp then for sure the Manual Supra will be my first choice. For SUV, there really are shit load of options out there, I think that i would go with a Toyota/Lexus.

 

[BJCanadaMax]

As a petrolhead of over 50 years standing I seem to have an unusual point of view.

I chose the Taycan because an electric motor is SO much better for a road car than an IC engine, the downside is battery, admittedly, but overall much better IME.

I have had a lot of nice cars over the years and have no interest in ever using an IC engined car for anything other than short fun trips and track days.
It probably does need to be an old one or one designed for fun like Gordon Murray’s offerings because modern efficient IC engines are high boost low revving turbos which I hate with a deep burning passion. They sound awful and have uninteresting throttle response.

The one place I don’t see as good for electric (or hybrid sadly) is motor sport where most of the benefits are not needed and the downside ruins the chassis. I am not the only ex-Formula 1 (or current) designer who believe this but money, money, money.

I have zero interest in all the gadgets you can and often do get on modern EVs (and just modern cars) but the power train and controllability I love.

The Taycan is overall the best road car I have ever driven.

yeah the taycan drives buttery smooth. Personally though, i would love to put my fourth generation prius powertrain into a bare mid rear chasis and see if its a great sports car, would be so efficient and sporty at the same time.

 

[daveo4EV]

If i am on BMW camp then for sure the Manual Supra will be my first choice. For SUV, there really are shit load of options out there, I think that i would go with a Toyota/Lexus.

fewer if you want a full BEV SUV…but yeah - and more are coming - it will be awkward to have a Macan EV in North American with no supercharger access…issues are piling up…

 

[tutis]

It's not a 911

Had a CT for 20 months, sold it a few weeks ago and took a big hit on depreciation. The car was ultimately too heavy, something that I could feel, particularly driving at legal speeds, and too long to use in many places in Europe. Got fed up with repeated trips to dealer for PCM not working, heater failure, charge port failure, interior alarm failure, PCM favourites being lost a million times, etc. etc.

Then I bought my wife a fun mini clubman JCW, realised after a few months it had just as much space as the CT, felt just as fun to drive, had a better stereo, and crucially had the same interior space for passenger and luggage as the CT. All for half the price of the CT, with a much smaller footprint (important for holidays in France and Italy)

The clinger came when I friend needed a quick sale on his low miles 992 C2, drove that and realised I had bought the wrong car and the mini could do everything we needed the CT to do, and the 911 was a much nicer drive in my eyes (weight, lower sitting position, better sound system, and dare I say NVH).

 

[Jonathan S.]

[...] Drove the BMW i4 sedan also - was super good - lots of good things - got back in my Taycan - and while the Taycan was better - it wasn't as far ahead better as it should have been - the BMW i4 is super close to almost great - car comes alive in sport mode - and their software doesn't suck as hard and they have a clue regarding supercharging. Taycan is better - but the BMW is damn good…and given some more practical concerns vs. pure driving it might be a better choice - certainly a more affordable choice.

Drove my wife's i4 M50 yesterday afternoon, then my CT this morning.
(Not quite apples-to-apples for power, since I have only a 4CT, whereas I think a 4S would be comparable to the M50, which I bought only b/c that was the only i4 AWD option earlier this year.)

Agreed with your overall assessment.
If the i5 Touring were available now, or even definitely coming here in 2024, then I would have gotten than instead of the CT. But the overwhelming consensus is that the i5 Touring is not coming to North American.
(I was tempted by the regular i5 sedan, but after a string of Subaru Legacy sedans, I've become a hatch fan with my 2019 VW Arteon, 2022 A6 Allroad, and 2023 i4!)

My one disagreement with you though is DCFC. Yes. BMW is on board with NACS. But TSCN access is apparently not coming until 2025 for BMW. So my hunch is that even if VAG hems / haws / haggles for a few more weeks, or months, then my CT will get access to those ~12k V3 250kW Superchargers at the same time or not much long after my wife's i4 does.

 

[bluesky]

I would be interested in hearing driving impressions and comparison with the BMW i5 M60, and not the i4 or iX, since the i5 is really the BMW’s current offering that most closely matches the Taycan’s size, weight and power (at least in the top end Taycan models), since an EV M5 isn’t coming only a hybrid for the next generation.

 

[andb]

Had a CT for 20 months, sold it a few weeks ago and took a big hit on depreciation. The car was ultimately too heavy, something that I could feel, particularly driving at legal speeds, and too long to use in many places in Europe. Got fed up with repeated trips to dealer for PCM not working, heater failure, charge port failure, interior alarm failure, PCM favourites being lost a million times, etc. etc.

Then I bought my wife a fun mini clubman JCW, realised after a few months it had just as much space as the CT, felt just as fun to drive, had a better stereo, and crucially had the same interior space for passenger and luggage as the CT. All for half the price of the CT, with a much smaller footprint (important for holidays in France and Italy)

The clinger came when I friend needed a quick sale on his low miles 992 C2, drove that and realised I had bought the wrong car and the mini could do everything we needed the CT to do, and the 911 was a much nicer drive in my eyes (weight, lower sitting position, better sound system, and dare I say NVH).

I understand why you were not happy with your Taycan.

To be honest the Taycan is overpriced for the performance, standard equipment and some underwhelming interior materials, for the same price a Panamera it's put together better and it is more premium inside.

I bought the cheapest used Turbo with all the options I wanted and I'm happy with it because its fast, comfortable, handles amazing, and it looks great.

I would be interested in hearing driving impressions and comparison with the BMW i5 M60, and not the i4 or iX, since the i5 is really the BMW’s current offering that most closely matches the Taycan’s size, weight and power (at least in the top end Taycan models), since an EV M5 isn’t coming only a hybrid for the next generation.

Not driven it yet but I've seen the i5 on Friday and it looks pretty good, tech is great, digital key, but it was 110k spec. As far as interior goes, I do like the layout of the Taycan more but it's cramped and Porsche tech is....not great.

 

[Jonathan S.]

I would be interested in hearing driving impressions and comparison with the BMW i5 M60, and not the i4 or iX, since the i5 is really the BMW’s current offering that most closely matches the Taycan’s size, weight and power (at least in the top end Taycan models), since an EV M5 isn’t coming only a hybrid for the next generation.

The initial consensus seems to be that the i5 is a bit more luxury and a bit less performance than the i4.
So although the i5 size and weight are closer to the Taycan, in other ways the i4 is closer to the Taycan.

 

[TXSchnee]

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/all-electric/ix/sports-activity-vehicle/overview.html

drove that the other day - it's a good EV SUV…nice interior space - if this had been on the market in 2021 might not have my Cayenne Hybrid…

• excellent build quality
• will support supercharging in North America
• excellent acceleration
• better software tech
  • supports phone-as-key really really well
  • decent vehicle app
  • wireless carplay
  • snappy in car software - good displays
  • functional and some fun
• handles decent - better than decent
• RWS makes it super agile
• excellent brakes - I tested them
• has good audible options for the emotional aspect of driving
• good range
• decent fast charging speed - but not as fast a taper curve as Taycan (and presumably MacanEV)
• can buy one today…
• 11 kW AC L2 onboard charger - and a specifications page that isn't confused by the difference between max capacity of their EVSE vs. their vehicle's onbaoard charger.
• one-pedal driving option or coasting - your choice as a driver
• infotainment software is really really good vs. Porsche PCM
• kina "meh" in normal mode -but put drive mode in sport and the car comes alive - was really really a hoot

really honestly a great option vs. watching Porsche flail at digital

given the better software tech and a decent mechanicals (better than average and still german) one might say I'd prefer it over a MacanEV even _IF_ the MacanEV would ever come to market.

honestly I don't believe Porsche's heart is "in it" when it comes to EV's - they seem more focused on eFuel and making ever increasing numbers of 911 variants that are so limited normal people have no chance of getting one…

Drove the BMW i4 sedan also - was super good - lots of good things - got back in my Taycan - and while the Taycan was better - it wasn't as far ahead better as it should have been - the BMW i4 is super close to almost great - car comes alive in sport mode - and their software doesn't suck as hard and they have a clue regarding supercharging. Taycan is better - but the BMW is damn good…and given some more practical concerns vs. pure driving it might be a better choice - certainly a more affordable choice.

I had a '23 BMW iX M60, I kept it for 2 months, it was a lemon. Most of the other people who were early adopters have sold theirs as well. Mine would do phantom braking, similar to a Tesla, and had a very large number of tech issues and electrical glitches that were always promised to be addressed by an update, at some point. The front seats are also very uncomfortable if driving for more than an hour. I would say the iX was a good try, and about 80% there, but again, I sold mine after 2 months and lost $30k, after BMW refused to buy it back (under an airbag recall they has no fix for).

 

[Donlam]

I own both etron suv and taycan. it is completely different to taycan. Taycan is much easy and safer to control on the motorway at highspeed specially when appoaching to the cross wind. I think the etron suv is similiar to macan ev platform.

 

[DGW]

mmm... to me, except for the Urus and X6M. SUVs are freaking boring looking. Does feel like money down in dumpster fire every time i look at the Cayanne. i mean if i got one. But i think that i should have a Macan as a loaner soon.

Urus = you do mean an Audi Q8, don't you? ? but to each his own if you think it will spicy you up like a fireeee

 

[SergeyIndy]

Toyota went ahead and said, not delaying that Macan EV bumper headlights look on our SUVs.

My wife thought she would be in a second year of production Macan EV by now, but no. She went with the 2024 GTS, and there is nothing Roar Pedal mod can do to fool the driver into direct throttle response, she loves it, unaware, she has it. They sure get away with a lot in 2024 with the Macans, halogen bulbs in the side markers and door puddle lights anyone, replaced with LED like asap, compatible with Taycan as well. Good vibe and looking timeless at this point next to a Cayenne GT in the area.