Taycan GTS vs M5 Competition

[RingoDingo]

Some people will always have their uninformed stance on EVs and it will take a demonstration/test drive etc to change it.

There are a lot of very informed people with an uninformed stance on EVs. For a lot of people, the smell of petrol and the sound of an engine evokes endless positive feelings, which I understand and appreciate. And they don't want to give those up, which I understand. It's time wrenching with dad or watching races together or the first taste of freedom or whatever other nostalgia you want to bring up. Mine are learning to drive a manual in an '83 Rabbit GTI and the sound of VTEC in '97 Prelude as a young adult. I like those memories, and I when I had an M3 I'd like to imagine downshifting in that V8 was a call back to my younger years.
In time, however, as newer generations grow up with EVs and aspire to them, that will change - as loud engines and the smell of gas are not innate human preferences - they're learned.

Even Chris Harris, whom I like, has parroted some of the stats and stories about how EVs are less environmentally friendly than ICE cars when you factor in all the energy necessary to mine the lithium and other rare elements, move the materials across the world, etc. Fine. I think that's a bit of a strawman as it relates to the overall and longterm factors favoring EVs - namely that one must view all of this as CapEx towards a much more environmentally friendly outcome - movement away from fossil fuels ultimately. It may cost a bit more for a while as the technology improves and the infrastructure is built out, but over time those environmental fixed costs will begin to get smaller and ultimately much much smaller as the world generally moves in the direction of renewables. Don't let the scary stories and petroleum-industry myths lead you astray.

In the meantime, don't respond to them on twitter and instagram or facebook or whatever. You're not going to change any minds that way - just drive your Taycan and let them see your smile.

 

[G7SUM]

As someone who went from a 2020 RS4 Carbon Black to the GTS - you will not be disappointed.
Yes, i miss the burps and crackles from the ICE at times however the overall experience is just BETTER.
Ride, performance, comfort!

 

[Keithwsimmons]

I'm having a purchase crisis on these two cars and any advice is appreciated
I have been offered a September allocation on a GTS build but also have a pretty strong offer to buy an at-the-dealer '23 M5 Comp that they are relatively eager to get rid of and willing to negotiate on. The dollar figures aren't the end of the world but the ~$25k difference in price isnt nothing at the end of the day. Would be trading in my '22 RS5 toward either vehicle.

The M5 has long been a dream car for its brutal power and styling. One of the few last remaining good looking BMWs (subjectively of course). I like the interior well enough. After a few test drives, I've been very pleased with the result but not overwhelmed, but havent been able to really push it on the curves on a test drive. Straight line power is still impressive with the 1200 mile governor on.

The GTS I think is a piece of visual art. I've only been able to test drive the 4S which felt beautiful driving, nice interior, feels like its on rails even at 40mph on turns. I can just tell its special. Since the Taycan came out, I have been lusting after it. The GTS just looks like an almost perfect vehicle.

concerns:

• Overall worried about depreciation of both cars in the near and long term. I strive to hold onto vehicles long term but havent had a lot of success in the past few vehicles
• Being reliant on 2 EVs in the household and no ICE options for a road trip.
• Range in the GTS although it would most likely live as a DD and rarely used for more than a few long trips a year. Still, cost vs range numbers are quite low
• Overall cost of the GTS - purely sticker shock.
• Paying for V8 gas
• Not overly wowed by either interior
• Taycan infotainment software seems basic at best - nitpick, would be using carplay
• M5 is large and heavy and feels it while GTS is large and heavy and doesnt feel it
• M5/ICE upkeep and maintenance

It's two very different vehicles from the basic ICE/EV perspective and driving dynamics but when I unfocus my eyes, its two large 4 door sedans with tremendous capability and pedigree. They would both be dailies, around town vehicles, rarely if ever tracked.

Appreciate any and all info, opinions and questions.

Edit: I have very compelling cases for purchasing either car, I chose to highlight my concerns about the vehicles. They are both dream cars for me.

I have a 22 GTS. First one sold by my dealer last April. Still get stopped by people on the looks. Beautiful. Having a great time with it. I had one trip to Canada that I was concerned about charging. I wouldn’t do that again. The anxiety of charging and extra time was unpleasant.
One negative is getting in/out of car. It’s tight at entry, but once you’re in very comfortable. I’m 6’2”.
I believe Porsche is eventually going to migrate to Tesla universal charging. Not sure how that will impact EV sales. I assume there will be an adapter and it will be easy. I charge at home anyway.

 

[or1]

There are a lot of very informed people with an uninformed stance on EVs. For a lot of people, the smell of petrol and the sound of an engine evokes endless positive feelings, which I understand and appreciate. And they don't want to give those up, which I understand. It's time wrenching with dad or watching races together or the first taste of freedom or whatever other nostalgia you want to bring up. Mine are learning to drive a manual in an '83 Rabbit GTI and the sound of VTEC in '97 Prelude as a young adult. I like those memories, and I when I had an M3 I'd like to imagine downshifting in that V8 was a call back to my younger years.
In time, however, as newer generations grow up with EVs and aspire to them, that will change - as loud engines and the smell of gas are not innate human preferences - they're learned.

Even Chris Harris, whom I like, has parroted some of the stats and stories about how EVs are less environmentally friendly than ICE cars when you factor in all the energy necessary to mine the lithium and other rare elements, move the materials across the world, etc. Fine. I think that's a bit of a strawman as it relates to the overall and longterm factors favoring EVs - namely that one must view all of this as CapEx towards a much more environmentally friendly outcome - movement away from fossil fuels ultimately. It may cost a bit more for a while as the technology improves and the infrastructure is built out, but over time those environmental fixed costs will begin to get smaller and ultimately much much smaller as the world generally moves in the direction of renewables. Don't let the scary stories and petroleum-industry myths lead you astray.

In the meantime, don't respond to them on twitter and instagram or facebook or whatever. You're not going to change any minds that way - just drive your Taycan and let them see your smile.

I have done quite a lot of looking into research papers on environmental effects in connection with studies/work. Results for lifecycle "costs" vary rather much, depending on scope and on what type of electricity generation is calculated with (from coal to renewables). It may also seem like there is a systematic effect depending on who does the calculations: ICE industry insiders often get worse results for EVs. But the average of all studies I have seen, is that EVs as a class of vehicles are definitely better. With renewable energy in the use phase, their lifecycle emissions divided by kilometers driven may be a third or so of ICEs. But yes, an inefficient big EV may be worse than an efficient very small ICE car.

And as electricity gets cleaner (almost) everywhere and production uses more recycled materials, the results improve even more. While an ICE car will produce CO2 all through its lifetime.

By the way, e-fuels may help with the CO2 balance. But they are extremely inefficient when seen from production to use, and must be used for special cases only IMO.

 

[WhydidisellmyM5]

I feel like this thread was made for me. In an ideal world, have an M5 and a Taycan, sadly the real world says one or the other. My god the M5 makes me smile.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

If you've test driven both cars, go with the one that you enjoy the most. If you enjoy the GTS more, then spend the $25K. I've never met anyone who's bought a car they really love, and regretted how much they spent.

 

[DirtyPop]

I'm having a purchase crisis on these two cars and any advice is appreciated
I have been offered a September allocation on a GTS build but also have a pretty strong offer to buy an at-the-dealer '23 M5 Comp that they are relatively eager to get rid of and willing to negotiate on. The dollar figures aren't the end of the world but the ~$25k difference in price isnt nothing at the end of the day. Would be trading in my '22 RS5 toward either vehicle.

The M5 has long been a dream car for its brutal power and styling. One of the few last remaining good looking BMWs (subjectively of course). I like the interior well enough. After a few test drives, I've been very pleased with the result but not overwhelmed, but havent been able to really push it on the curves on a test drive. Straight line power is still impressive with the 1200 mile governor on.

The GTS I think is a piece of visual art. I've only been able to test drive the 4S which felt beautiful driving, nice interior, feels like its on rails even at 40mph on turns. I can just tell its special. Since the Taycan came out, I have been lusting after it. The GTS just looks like an almost perfect vehicle.

concerns:

• Overall worried about depreciation of both cars in the near and long term. I strive to hold onto vehicles long term but havent had a lot of success in the past few vehicles
• Being reliant on 2 EVs in the household and no ICE options for a road trip.
• Range in the GTS although it would most likely live as a DD and rarely used for more than a few long trips a year. Still, cost vs range numbers are quite low
• Overall cost of the GTS - purely sticker shock.
• Paying for V8 gas
• Not overly wowed by either interior
• Taycan infotainment software seems basic at best - nitpick, would be using carplay
• M5 is large and heavy and feels it while GTS is large and heavy and doesn't feel it
• M5/ICE upkeep and maintenance

It's two very different vehicles from the basic ICE/EV perspective and driving dynamics but when I unfocus my eyes, its two large 4 door sedans with tremendous capability and pedigree. They would both be dailies, around town vehicles, rarely if ever tracked.

Appreciate any and all info, opinions and questions.

Edit: I have very compelling cases for purchasing either car, I chose to highlight my concerns about the vehicles. They are both dream cars for me.

I feel like I might be one of the better people to give you an opinion on this matter because I sold my '22 spec'd Selenite Grey Magno E63s AMG because it just wasn't what I wanted. I only drove it for 3,300 miles. On the freeway it was amazing. It felt powerful and nimble even though it was a massive saloon. Around town at slower speeds it drove like a sluggish tank. I hated it. I'm a real estate broker so I was driving around town a lot showing property. For me it just didn't work. MSRP was 125K and I felt like I wasn't enjoying my driving experience enough to spend that kind of dough. I'm not frugal or poor by any means, but in the AMG I found myself constantly looking at the gas gauge watching it go down before my eyes and getting annoyed. Gas was around $6.00 here in the Bay Area during that time. Ugh.

I did consider that it was one of the last V8 AMGs, but that V8 sound and feel still wasn't enough. At this point, Nov '21, I hadn't really considered the Taycan. I just knew that this AMG wasn't doing it. Since the car market was absolutely bonkers during that time I was able to sell it for what I paid including taxes. All I lost was the 8K I spend on a full Xpel Stealth wrap and ceramic coating. Check out the walk around video I made here. ----> '22 MB E63s AMG

Ok so the AMG was gone and I knew I needed something. My buddy bought one of the very first Taycan Turbos in 2020. He let me drive it and I was pretty impressed. It had a totally different feel that anything I'd ever driven. I started reaching out to local dealerships to see if they had any 4s allocations. The only 4s allocation I could find was from Monterey Porsche. My spec was around 131k if I remember correctly. Before I signed the salesman called me up and said, "I have bad news. My GM is being a dick and is making me add a $7,500 dealer mark up on your deal. There is nothing I can do." This was after we had negotiated the price so I felt somewhat blindsided. From what I read and heard the dealer mark ups were happening with cars that were either en route or already sitting on the showroom floor. It was odd to markup an allocation, but here we were. I said a few choice words and was out. I called my buddy with the Turbo and asked if his connection at another dealership could help with a 4s. He said yes. I spoke with that salesman and they didn't have any 4s allocations, but they did have 5 GTSs that Porsche spec'd for them that were on the boat heading over to the states. He said because of my connection I could choose any of the 5 and they would sell it to me at sticker. I chose Carrera White Metallic with slate interior, GTS spyder matte black rims, etc.

The MSRP was 147K. I had the same thought you did. Is this car really worth another XX over the AMG / M5? I pulled trigger in April of '22. Emphatically, the answer is yes. I have never driven a 4s so I can only give you my thoughts on the GTS. The Taycan GTS is the greatest car I've ever driven!!! Intoxicating acceleration, precise finish, and IMO the best looking car on the road. I have had so many people stop to talk to me about it. They all say, "What a good looking car." I think the Sport Design body kit is a must. It makes an already beautiful car look that much better. The black Spyder rims can only be spec on the GTS. These, IMO, are the best looking rims Porsche makes for the Taycan. My buddy with the Turbo had his Mission E rims painted volcano grey to match the car and they look ok, but no where near as cool and clean as the GTS black spyder rims. He even admitted it much to his dismay. He has a '22 911 Turbo S in Chalk sitting in his garage, he will be fine.

The driving experience of the GTS is kinda mind boggling. Merging on the freeway is so effortless, it seems as every other car on the road is stuck in mud or standing still. Press the peddle and boom you are doing 90. The Taycan handles like it is glued to the pavement. It is so grounded that no curve seems too daunting. It is perfectly balanced. I put 10,000 miles on it and every day I get excited to drive it. I find myself finding things to do just so I can get behind the wheel and take it out. I've never had that feeling before with a car. Bonus...no need to fill it up with gas or do ICE maintenance. Win!

Other than two flaws it is the perfect vehicle. #1 the PCM (infotainment) is pretty average to below average. I also have a new Jeep Grand Cherokee L and the UConnect system in the Jeep is 1,000x better than the PCM in the Taycan. Sirius radio is almost unusable in the Taycan because of the clunky PCM design. #2 The center console is almost unusable as well. It is a terrible design that makes it super difficult to get into. There is a wireless charger in the console for the phone but based on the design you almost can't get it out without transferring your entire body forward. The center console's door doesn't even stand straight up when opened. It just kinds flops there at a 70 degree angle. Porsche should have designed the door to slide backwards towards the backseat to provide complete access to the storage and wireless charger. I bet they fix this in future years. Oh, there is a 3rd thing. The backup camera is weak. The camera quality looks like it is from about 15 years ago. At this price point Porsche should have put in a HD camera in the car.

Other than those 3 things this car is flawless. I have no idea what I can go to next because this car is so much fun to drive. My wife doesn't even like cars. She still drives her '06 Chevy Malibu and when she saw and drove the Taycan she said..."We HAVE TO buy this car. I absolutely love it." "Ok, done." haha

 

[Icey4s]

I currently have an F90 M5 Comp and a Taycan Turbo S. As amazing as the M5 is, it just doesn't compare to the Taycan. Pretty much for all the reasons that have already been stated (styling, comfort, steering and driving experience, power and so on).

 

[NLister18]

Like you, I came from an Audi RS5 (2021 Sportback). I loved that car but needed to include it in a trade in towards any Taycan purchase. Also similar to you is that I was considering a BMW M car but in my case it was the M8 competition. And while I loved the M8, the design, handling, incredibly smooth ride, and instant acceleration of the Taycan made it an easy choice for me. IMO there are no other cars that have a better combination of design, handling, performance and practically of the Taycan. It is truly a unique vehicle that ironically has a very low operating cost considering its price point. It sounds to me that you’ve been more impressed with your experience in the Taycan but are still unsure as to how to justify the price different as compared to the M5. This is exactly where I was while shopping my Taycan against the M8. In the end, I decided to buy the car that I felt I absolutely had to have, and was fortunate enough that price wasn’t the ultimate determining factor.

Good luck and happy hunting. You are truly blessed to be in the position you’re in, either way you decide.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

As I mentioned before, the GTS is the vehicle I want, I just want to understand how its worth ~25k more than an M5. That;s really the bottom line.

I skimmed this thread, so forgive me if it's been said before: is it really a 'cost'-based decision? Because that'd be pretty easy to settle using 'enthusiast math':
- one would be a "used deal", whereas the other is a made-to-your-order car. If you're looking for a deal, then the answer is obvious (you're getting the M5 at a discount); if you aren't, then the answer is obvious (the P-car is worth the wait/extra, as it's not an apples-to-apples comparison)
- divide 25k by your hourly income*, then compare the result with the number of hours you estimate will spend regretting making the "wrong" choice, and use that for the next car purchase decision (doesn't sound like this'll be the last).

*Take the low end of the interval (say, after tax, no stock, minus other expenses/savings) to stack the calculus against the Taycan, and take the opposite end otherwise.

Glad to help!

 

[NuJerzPorsche]

I’m taking the Taycan 10/10 times over the M5 every time. I remember when I was going to get an 8 series or M8 as opposed to the M5.

the M5 is a beast but it’s not special enough with the styling. Even the M8/8 as opposed to a Taycan is not matching up. The amount of kids and people that have walked up or said nice car in the past couple months has been crazy. The M5 is just another vehicle on the road with a cool exhaust. It’s not like we are comparing a McLare,Ferrari or one of the exotics to it. Now that’s when it gets to be a tough decision.

Get the Taycan! ?

 

[Moonstone]

Swapped this

For this

LOVED my M5. Really Loved it. Always an event driving it, but the car is invisible. It comes with a lot of things as standard that you need to pay extra on the Taycan for and it has more drama, but ultimately @f1eng has it bang on the money, noise and emissions regulations have neutered the car in comparison to previous models (an even earlier F90s). My GTS is a wee bit slower than the M5 but it's better to drive and is much more exotic looking piece of machinery.

Again agreeing with @f1eng, the Taycan alongside a fun ICE car to throw around at the weekends is the best combination.

I actually came back to my car from the supermarket last week and there was a black 2022 F90 Comp sitting next to it. My own M5 ha quite a lot spent on it, M Performance kit etc. This was juts bog standard and it could not have looked more of a sleeper next to the Taycan.

I thought I'd really miss my M5. I do not!

 

[Redhot2474]

You obviously can’t go wrong with either car. If price OR depreciation wasn’t ANY concern which one would you pick? There’s your answer. Also, you’re going to take a huge hit with both cars, that’s the reality of buying a new car with no current incentives. Massive value propositions on used Taycan Turbos now, that’s the logical answer if you’re really concerned about depreciation. Lastiy, that M5 Is going to cost you 15k in fuel over 3 years

 

[4thPcar]

I'm having a purchase crisis on these two cars and any advice is appreciated
I have been offered a September allocation on a GTS build but also have a pretty strong offer to buy an at-the-dealer '23 M5 Comp that they are relatively eager to get rid of and willing to negotiate on. The dollar figures aren't the end of the world but the ~$25k difference in price isnt nothing at the end of the day. Would be trading in my '22 RS5 toward either vehicle.

The M5 has long been a dream car for its brutal power and styling. One of the few last remaining good looking BMWs (subjectively of course). I like the interior well enough. After a few test drives, I've been very pleased with the result but not overwhelmed, but havent been able to really push it on the curves on a test drive. Straight line power is still impressive with the 1200 mile governor on.

The GTS I think is a piece of visual art. I've only been able to test drive the 4S which felt beautiful driving, nice interior, feels like its on rails even at 40mph on turns. I can just tell its special. Since the Taycan came out, I have been lusting after it. The GTS just looks like an almost perfect vehicle.

concerns:

• Overall worried about depreciation of both cars in the near and long term. I strive to hold onto vehicles long term but havent had a lot of success in the past few vehicles
• Being reliant on 2 EVs in the household and no ICE options for a road trip.
• Range in the GTS although it would most likely live as a DD and rarely used for more than a few long trips a year. Still, cost vs range numbers are quite low
• Overall cost of the GTS - purely sticker shock.
• Paying for V8 gas
• Not overly wowed by either interior
• Taycan infotainment software seems basic at best - nitpick, would be using carplay
• M5 is large and heavy and feels it while GTS is large and heavy and doesnt feel it
• M5/ICE upkeep and maintenance

It's two very different vehicles from the basic ICE/EV perspective and driving dynamics but when I unfocus my eyes, its two large 4 door sedans with tremendous capability and pedigree. They would both be dailies, around town vehicles, rarely if ever tracked.

Appreciate any and all info, opinions and questions.

Edit: I have very compelling cases for purchasing either car, I chose to highlight my concerns about the vehicles. They are both dream cars for me.

Whenever I see a BMW of any variety (including "competition"), and I know the owner sees me, I imagine him (most likely a him) thinking to himself "damn, I could have bought a Porsche." Or maybe he even says "should have." I could be wrong. Its what I would be thinking if I bought the BMW you are considering.

 

[DirtyPop]

Whenever I see a BMW of any variety (including "competition"), and I know the owner sees me, I imagine him (most likely a him) thinking to himself "damn, I could have bought a Porsche." Or maybe he even says "should have." I could be wrong. Its what I would be thinking if I bought the BMW you are considering.

I agree. They are just two totally different vibes.