"Porsche Changes EV Plan, Will Give Electric Models ICE Powertrains Too" - Article

[Tooney]

The sports car brand is rethinking its electric-focused strategy and investigating how to include more combustion engines in its lineup, but it’s going to be tricky.

• Porsche is adjusting its EV strategy in response to sluggish Taycan sales and rising demand for combustion and hybrid options.
• The automaker is looking into incorporating more ICE and hybrid options into lineups that were developed as EV-only.
• New 718 models and the Macan SUV were conceived as EVs, and it may be too late to easily adapt them to combustion power.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/10/p...e-future-electric-models-ice-powertrains-too/

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

BMW had it right, apparently.
I’m not pulling an about-face on EVs, but it’s good to know one can dream of a GT4 in the future. And keep working on synthetic fuels.

 

[chun]

BMW had it right, apparently.
I’m not pulling an about-face on EVs, but it’s good to know one can dream of a GT4 in the future. And keep working on synthetic fuels.

It's less about that, and more about making compelling products. So Porsche is doubling down on what compelling products they can make. But that is a temporary measure; new buyers will find it harder to justify a 500hp "sport" 911 for 300k; when a 30k KIA / BYD EV can outmaneuver it and out-speed it.

The reality is that the Chinese market is very important, and that Porsche and most German automakers can't compete. They can't compete on price. They can't compete on tech. They can't compete on reliability. They are only competitive on drive dynamics.

For German automakers, EV ment a drive train change. For Chinese automakers, just like tesla, EV ment a new way to experience cars. And the market wants more, wants a new way.

How they thought that they can come out in 2025 with Taycan facelift, without OTA, without a well designed infotainment is a joke. Other car brands developed in house infotainment straight with game engines, UE5, in months, and Porsche can't find a solution?

And when they start failing at the thing they are known for, quality and service... what are they even offering?

 

[chun]

Will add that Porsche is somehow dreaming that regulations won't adjust. But those are dreams.

They were forced to launch the new GT3 early due to new regulations from 2025, that wouldn't have allowed the car to be released.

Chinese automakers are coming to EU; and east Europe is supporting them fully. North Europe is supporting them fully. Germany won't be able to block them.

Better products from Chinese automakers and new regulations might stop their "strategy" to go back to ICE anyway...

It feels like Porsche is lost and don't understand how to make a compelling EV (proof is the controversial taycan GT weissach)

 

[Uknown]

It also could be it isn’t 2022, other car manufacturers have loads of inventory and if the buyer needs to finance 6-8% is a tough pill to swallow on a 6 figure car.

I wonder if some US dealers will have to fold or feel more pain to actually get motivated to sell. I am noticing just this week 2024 Taycans listing at their sticker price.. they won’t sell at that.

 

[Scandinavian]

How they thought that they can come out in 2025 with Taycan facelift, without OTA, without a well designed infotainment is a joke. Other car brands developed in house infotainment straight with game engines, UE5, in months, and Porsche can't find a solution?

Unfortunately I think that Porsche is not capable of doing that. Their overall architecture and reliance on subcontractors to have over 100 ECU’s in the car, makes it impossible in my view. They will never manage this.

Love the new GT3 Touring! But SWMBO had already put her foot down.

 

[f1eng]

I have zero interest in returning to an IC engined car for road use.
I have kept a plug in hybrid but only because the Taycan is stupidly wide for some of my requirements. I have a sports car for a bit of fun, and a 2 seater EV is so far likely to be much too heavy to consider owning for that purpose and I am not seeing any strong hope of that changing during my lifetime.

I would have no problem having a Chinese electric car if it is the most suitable choice for my use.

 

[tigerbalm]

How they thought that they can come out in 2025 with Taycan facelift, without OTA, without a well designed infotainment is a joke. Other car brands developed in house infotainment straight with game engines, UE5, in months, and Porsche can't find a solution?

Porsche's solution:

1. Undermine the Taycan PCM by rolling it out to Cayenne, 911 and Panamera but not to Macan EV.
2. Undermine the new Macan EV by not rolling it out to the facelift MY25 Taycan.
3. Undermine all the PCMs by publicly saying you are looking into Google Automotive OS for future PCMs. Note: the Macan EV is based on AndroidOS not the dedicated Automotive OS that Google has – used by the likes of Polestar.
4. Also mention in press-releases that you are in deep conversations with Apple about future PCM direction.
5. Also mention in the press that you are talking to Microsoft.
6. Speak at industry conferences about how the new (doomed) VW.OS from CARIAD is the future.

 

[tigerbalm]

Unfortunately I think that Porsche is not capable of doing that. Their overall architecture and reliance on subcontractors to have over 100 ECU’s in the car, makes it impossible in my view. They will never manage this.

The VW.OS approach from CARIAD is trying to adopt the "Tesla" approach. Buy hardware from suppliers but write all your own software and integrations to run on a limited ECUs.

It would be amazing if they pulled it off – its the best approach – but it seems that it is lost in a quagmire of its own making. Its taking out VW CEOs and executives like nothing else ever has. It has caused delays to VW, Audi and Porsche right when they least needed it.

From the outside looking in: it feels doomed. But they need to do it – and late would still be better than never.

Porsche have senior executive positions called "Integration Managers" who's main job is to integrate in all the ECUs.

 

[tigerbalm]

They were forced to launch the new GT3 early due to new regulations from 2025, that wouldn't have allowed the car to be released.

What will be interesting is the research funding situation. Back in 2020-ish banks were being forced by their shareholders to step up "green" funding. Traditional car manufacturers were starting to see that it would be difficult to get capital to invest in ICE technologies. Hybrid was one way of bridging the gap.

EV adoption is clearly slower than anticipated – this is not VHS vs DVD – but it is still only going in one direction. Hybrid is keeping ICE vehicles more relevant for longer.

New Panamera with 80km+ electric range is a genuine electric vehicle and I think a compelling offering right now. But its future is doomed.

Here in tiny Ireland – every new house and apartment block parking space needs – by planning regulations – to be pre-wired for an EVSE. 300kW chargers are going up – by EU law – every 60km along main roads.

Every technology adoption looks like this: spurt at the start, trough of disillusionment (likely here at the moment), then acceptance and finally the plateau of productivity (it just becomes normal and hardly anyone is talking about it).

My apartment in Dublin was recently upgraded ("for free") to 10GB fibre connection – and it wasn't even something that I really thought was amazing. Five years ago, I don't think it was something I could even conceive. Or that walking with a 5G iPhone in my pocket gives me a faster mobile connection than my entire university had when I was there in the early 90s!

Almost every adoption takes a bit longer than initially expected – but when it arrives it is so pervasive that we don't even notice that it has!

 

[Uknown]

I also wonder what this means for Taycan 2027/2028.

Porsche has too many changes in direction announced, without clear follow through or impact.

I don’t mind the PCM, I don’t necessarily need major OTA updates if the dealers are reasonable and the update is free. But it would be nice to pick a path and commit.

Basic recalls feel hamstrung or incompetently managed. Maybe Porsche has always been this way I am new to the brand.

I do truly enjoy the Taycan, so much so once dealers are ready to make a deal I will order a new one with the plan to use it for 6 to 8 years and ride into a better technology ?.. so far it seems like at least in the US the dealers don’t need sales, or there is a large customer base we don’t see paying sticker.

I am not in this industry, so really have no idea… from the outside It seems strange to walk back from EV now for a company like Porsche. It appears the next 5 to 8 years is the time to really buckle down on EV and press for adoption. competence. And scale. Instead the focus seems to be on cutting investments and focus on the future to hide in the past. Maybe something else is going on with supplier contracts, unions etc..

 

[Tooney]

Porsche Is Reconsidering Its Electric-Only Strategy

 

[daveo4EV]

Porsche Is Reconsidering Its Electric-Only Strategy

Meanwhile, the refreshed Taycan isn’t doing so great in the sales charts. It sold just over 14,000 units from January until September, noting a 50% drop compared to 2023. As good as it is, it seems buyers just don’t want it. Interestingly, sales of the 718 Cayman and Boxster, scheduled for discontinuation in 2025, saw a 10% increase.

it's the price dummies!! not the demand.

the strategy so far seems to be:

• come out with an ok EV
• overprice it by quite a factor
• note that sales lag
• determine it because people don't want an EV
• beg the EU to roll back upcoming restrictions
• and revisit your past glory days and say you're going back to ICE vehicles

meanwhile the Chinese are having a different experience and there seems to be no demand problem in their market…

 

[Fish Fingers]

Interesting developments on the EU/China car tariffs today.
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...inese-evs-risking-beijing-payback-2024-10-29/

German car makers are finding themselves in a very bad situation, in a very short space of time.

This is the most compelling graph for me. If you think of the timescale the established manufacturers have been ruling the roost, the timeline of change is phenomenal.

 

[Fish Fingers]

...........and looking at that story on the Xiaomi claiming the lap record from the Taycan today (albeit unfairly), the development speed is startling.
Meanwhile Porsche (and other German manufacturers) are like rabbits dazzled in the headlights and keep changing direction as they don't know which way to go.

From Piston heads site:

If the Chinese carmaker Xiaomi hasn’t made much of an impression on you yet, don’t worry - the Nordschleife lap time it set yesterday is all part of its plan to change that. And Xiaomi is nothing if not a maker of plans. The Wikipedia page devoted to its list of products makes the summation of the Hundred Years’ War look like a Christmas card. But all you need to really know (if you don’t already) is that despite only getting started in 2010, the wider corporation is the second-largest maker of smartphones in the world and a global giant in consumer electronics. And now it’s making cars.
Its automotive division, Xiaomi Auto, established in 2021, announced its battery-powered SU7 saloon - a Porsche Taycan rival with up to 673hp - last December, and started selling it in March of this year. Clearly, though, this is not the sort of company that pauses to pat itself on the back for getting a product to market in the equivalent of a nanosecond.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/el...i-su7-ultra-smashes-taycan-gt-ring-time/49151