[Perspective] - A happy Taycan owner road trip’s his Daughter’s Model Y…

[daveo4EV]

@daveo4EV

You may be one of the best members on the forum, but man, you need help letting go of the Tesla obsession. They got a great charging network, and crappy cars. We got a great car and a crappy charging environment.

That is just the hand we have been dealt.

Things will change over the next few years, but you continually complaining on this forum will not make it happen any faster.

We would much rather see pictures of your Taycan or 911 on this road trip than the Model Y.

if the Taycan had the cargo room I would've take it - but it doesn't.

 

[daveo4EV]

Seems like you need a Cross Turismo then.

considering one - but will not purchase any EV with out supercharge network access - ford, gm, rivian, volvo, mercedes are all possible given current announcements

if porsche doesn’t step up with at least access via adapter there is no CT in my future

 

[blame.latitude]

Jesus, how many times do we have to be subjected to the same Tesla bull$hit? waaaa waaaa whaaa....

my dude literally opens up a forum titled 'taycan vs' and proceeds to complain that a user with actual experience posts a detailed 'taycan vs the main competitor'

Are you one of those guys who goes to canada and tries to pay with american money? Do you also go to victorias secret and complain that there arent any watermelons for sale?

 

[Windpower]

As an owner of both a Taycan and a long range Y, I offer my two cents:

Tesla’s phone as a key/fob implementation is excellent - they really nailed it

Agreed. I wish all cars had 'phone as key'.

The Supercharger NACS connector/cable is simply better ergonomics vs. CCS1

Agreed. While I don't often charge at a public EA charger, the weight of the CCS cable is not for the faint of heart. The Tesla cable is lighter and easier to maneuver.

Tesla software is just soooo much better than everyone else’s

Disagree. While when the Tesla software works, its fine, but it crashes on me as often as the Taycan software (Tesla screen goes blank, the nav locks up or the cameras don't work, all requiring a reboot). I primarily use CarPlay in the Taycan and an Echo Auto on both cars for music, and both the Tesla and Taycan periodically lose connection to my iPhone. Plus I find the lack of CarPlay in the Tesla to be a big negative (I use Waze exclusively). Streaming music IS a game changer whether its in the Taycan or the Y: "Alexa, resume music".

Tesla’s mechanically may not be Porsche’s quality but they are good enough

Maybe. I equate the quality of the Tesla Y to one of the older Japanese cars: pretty good but no where near German auto quality.

I'm not a big road tripper, so the value of the extensive Tesla charging network is lost on me. As I tell people who ask me about EVs, if you need to travel long distances, you need to plot out your course to make sure you can make it from point A to point B without having to go to extreme lengths to charge. This includes Tesla. While the Tesla network is more extensive, there are still holes which you need to check out before going on a trip.

Last summer I visited my brother on Cape Cod and took the Y. On the way back I left his house with a 100% charge but had troubles finding a Tesla charger between the last service station on i95 in Connecticut and my home. The trip was about 180 miles so in the end I didn't need to recharge. But even with the Tesla charging network, there are still holes.

 

[daveo4EV]

look what i found on the friday harbor island!

all EVs are equal here - no fast charging!!!!

 

[BMonte13]

My Taycan is like my cell phone. I use during the day and charge at home at night (except I only plug my car in about twice a week). I don't road trip because if it's a long trip I'm flying. True story.

 

[daveo4EV]

the Model Y's turning radius saddens me - the car just does not pivot the front end around like my Porsche (no surprise i know) - but even though I "know" about it - it still surprises me each time I simply can not swing the front end around in a slow turn at max lock to avoid the bush/curb/dirt-road-edge - etc…

this is not a lack of RWS thing - it just doesn't turn in a slow steering-wheel "lock"…

+1 for other vendors in this space …I've had larger cars with longer wheel bases behave much better for tight turns.

Porsche RULES in this space, with my Taycan w/RWS completely hammering the Model Y at similar maneuvers

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Are you one of those guys who goes to canada and tries to pay with american money?

Wait, that's not okay? The few times I tried it - because, you know, exchange offices aren't ubiquitous - Canadians seemed peeved to take USD, but had no problem giving me a 1:1 exchange rate (and the change in CAD)..

I see that @thecoloradokid has deleted his posts, but surely you must have realized by now that @daveo4EV is predisposed to hyperbole. "Much better" is a) subjective, and b) not the same as "the other doesn't work".

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

@daveo4EV you're in the area! Not sure if the planets will align, but I'm literally a few miles East of your route as you'll drive back South.

You also wrote a few (== many) other things, some of which do stand out:
- it's perfectly okay for something to be better/the best, and yet not matter to others. Particularly when it comes to software in cars (my favorite pet peeve). It doesn't mean we're laughable, or deluded/brainwashed/haven't seen the light. I work on software - not the kind that renders pretty pictures on some display (I used to do that, too), but the kind that Netflix/Walmart/large chunk of F500 runs on. I do, sincerely, like my cars dumb - or just smart enough to pipe through the speakers whatever my phone is streaming. 0 weight given (so as to put it politely).
- you're right in that the non-Tesla charging networks have issues. I've had mixed results with an EVGo in Tacoma, so in a sense it's a relief to see it's not just EA. Maybe you're right, and the physical aspects of CCS1 make for an unreliable charging solution. We'll see soon enough if the much-maligned EA's adoption of NACS will be an improvement. (It will literally be a side-by-side comparison.)
- (paraphrasing) in the beginning, I looked for an EV wagon and I couldn't find one. So I asked Porsche to build one for me, and they obliged.

 

[Ambroos]

On EA charging
EA in Oregon and along I-5 close to Oregon in WA/CA is surprisingly bad. When I still had mine and lived in Seattle I did the Seattle to SF/LA a few times (in both an e-tron and a Taycan). That stretch on I-5 was always the part that needs most planning.

I never had issues at the Dairy Queen spot from OP's post, but nice it is not.

The only two EA spots I've ever been completely unable to charge at unexpectedly were at Three Rivers Mall in Kelso WA, and Target in Springfield, OR. Also Yreka Walmart, which is apparently still problematic (2x150, 2x50) but that was shown in the EA app so I could work around it. In the Taycan it was all easy to avoid thanks to the nice range, in the e-tron (fat SUV) it was a bit more challenging.

On Autopilot
Since moving back to Europe I no longer have my own car and survive on rentals instead. I recently had a Model Y in Iceland for about a week and I kinda hated Autopilot in it. While it sure is 'better' at completely driving itself, I really dislike how it's either all Autopilot or all you. Sometimes Autopilot would just not be able to decide where on the road it would be, and while not dangerous it made for a very annoying drive where the car constantly switches between hugging the right lane marker and the middle of the road. Lane markings weren't always great in Iceland, but still.

In the Taycan and almost every other car I've ever had a rental (any VW group, any BMW, any Volvo/Polestar), the assistance is collaborative and a lot more consistent. You know when it works (with good lane lines) and it works well in those cases, while never fighting you. I naturally get 'used' to how to drive with it and it allows me to stop focusing on detailed steering when I'm on a road with good lane lines. For the rest, I'll just drive myself.

Autopilot meanwhile while engaged requires constant babysitting. It's just stress a few times a minute when the car does something weird and I have to decide in a split second if I'm going to take over and deal with all the disengagement bongs and re-engaging ritual, or just let the car do whatever it wants all over the road and hope it recovers. I ended every long drive with some contempt for Autopilot and general frustration, while with any other car I mentioned above, if I use their assist system, I end the drive relaxed because the systems are easy to predict and easy to drive together with.

That alone is a reason for me not to take a Tesla on a roadtrip. Now that I live back in Europe I rent quite a lot. Hertz in Europe very often has Polestar 2s and Tesla Model Ys or 3s. Typically they're very close in price, and you can bet that I will literally always prefer a Polestar 2 over a Model Y/3. In Europe there is practically no charging network difference anymore, and a Polestar 2 just makes for a more relaxing drive.

 

[SteveDC]

On EA charging
EA in Oregon and along I-5 close to Oregon in WA/CA is surprisingly bad. When I still had mine and lived in Seattle I did the Seattle to SF/LA a few times (in both an e-tron and a Taycan). That stretch on I-5 was always the part that needs most planning.

I never had issues at the Dairy Queen spot from OP's post, but nice it is not.

The only two EA spots I've ever been completely unable to charge at unexpectedly were at Three Rivers Mall in Kelso WA, and Target in Springfield, OR. Also Yreka Walmart, which is apparently still problematic (2x150, 2x50) but that was shown in the EA app so I could work around it. In the Taycan it was all easy to avoid thanks to the nice range, in the e-tron (fat SUV) it was a bit more challenging.

On Autopilot
Since moving back to Europe I no longer have my own car and survive on rentals instead. I recently had a Model Y in Iceland for about a week and I kinda hated Autopilot in it. While it sure is 'better' at completely driving itself, I really dislike how it's either all Autopilot or all you. Sometimes Autopilot would just not be able to decide where on the road it would be, and while not dangerous it made for a very annoying drive where the car constantly switches between hugging the right lane marker and the middle of the road. Lane markings weren't always great in Iceland, but still.

In the Taycan and almost every other car I've ever had a rental (any VW group, any BMW, any Volvo/Polestar), the assistance is collaborative and a lot more consistent. You know when it works (with good lane lines) and it works well in those cases, while never fighting you. I naturally get 'used' to how to drive with it and it allows me to stop focusing on detailed steering when I'm on a road with good lane lines. For the rest, I'll just drive myself.

Autopilot meanwhile while engaged requires constant babysitting. It's just stress a few times a minute when the car does something weird and I have to decide in a split second if I'm going to take over and deal with all the disengagement bongs and re-engaging ritual, or just let the car do whatever it wants all over the road and hope it recovers. I ended every long drive with some contempt for Autopilot and general frustration, while with any other car I mentioned above, if I use their assist system, I end the drive relaxed because the systems are easy to predict and easy to drive together with.

That alone is a reason for me not to take a Tesla on a roadtrip. Now that I live back in Europe I rent quite a lot. Hertz in Europe very often has Polestar 2s and Tesla Model Ys or 3s. Typically they're very close in price, and you can bet that I will literally always prefer a Polestar 2 over a Model Y/3. In Europe there is practically no charging network difference anymore, and a Polestar 2 just makes for a more relaxing drive.

Ambroos makes a good point about driving with the assistance function. When it does something odd, since you are already paying attention anyway, you just correct it. I also appreciate, especially on the shooting gallery we call our beltway (amazing how many F1 drivers we have) P will occasionally nudge me back into lane, especially on curves. In others words, the cooperative aspect with the car is a plus.

 

[Scandinavian]

Porsche is wrong about one-pedal driving - it should be an “option” - but not required.

That is one thing I would not want on the Taycan. I personally think Porsche have the balance absolutely right. Gives me great control of the car, without having to have to keep the accelerator on the absolutely correct level.

Summary/TLDR; - road tripping with a reliable and ubiquitous fast charging network is a game changing experience - Tesla has it and no one else does (North America) - period, full stop you do not get to argue this point.

This is like you have stated a North America problem and issue!

Here in Europe we are lucky to have a lot of very good and reliable charging networks. And Ionity is very very good. Having driven about 20,000 miles the last 15 months, the Ionity network matches very well the Tesla SuC experience. There can be a capacity problem with number of stalls, but the chargers normally deliver what they promise. And there a number of others like Fastned, EnBW, Aral Pulse etc etc that compliment Ionity in most countries. I think I saw one HPC every 30 km at least when during through France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Southern Norway. Problem there is more the walled garden approach from different networks, requiring a lot of apps, dongles etc. That needs sorting out!

The Tesla network Open for All here in Europe is a valuable extension if you have the 150 kW option in the car. And surprisingly Tesla SuC starts charging quicker than Ionity! But Fastned are blazingly fast yo start!!

 

[Dave Birch]

I’m a long time EV owners (since 2011) - former Tesla victim/customer - avid EV road warrior and deeply experienced EV road trip participant…I’m writing this up from some perspectives from a current (ongoing trip) from the SF Bay area to Friday Harbor, WA and back - currently at Burlington but will be back in SF Bay are monday/tuesday…

I have not road tripped a Tesla since about 2019 - and I got my Taycan in July of 2020 so that’s been my EV road trip “touch stone” since then.

in the past 4 days I’ve spend some quality time in a 2023 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD. And having done identical trips with the Taycan I’m finding the experience with Model Y illuminating. Below are various bullet points in no particular order…

Summary/TLDR; - road tripping with a reliable and ubiquitous fast charging network is a game changing experience - Tesla has it and no one else does (North America) - period, full stop you do not get to argue this point. This is the first time ever since I began with EV’s that I did “zero” pre-planning for my trip - in August of 2023 the Supercharger network is now _THAT_ good and available on north/south I-5 route for west coast United states.

Bullet thoughts:

• Tesla’s seats while adequate - truly suck - they are plush but lack support for my legs - they are good enough for mid range, but I miss my 14-way w/Massage
• Road noise is again acceptable, but not as good as my Taycan
• ride quality is acceptable but again not as good as Porsche air suspension
• Model Y’s lane keeping/ACC (auto-pilot) is vastly better than Porsche Innodrive
• Model Y cabin is light/airy, but sparse
• Tesla app is really good / i miss a good vehicle app
• Tesla’s phone as a key/fob implementation is excellent - they really nailed it
• for it’s price point $52k pre-rebates/incentives - I honestly can’t think other another SUV/EV I’d rather have for it’s price - the ICE alternatives are also not Porsche’s and suck way way more than Tesla’s well done Model Y with an excellent EV drive train.
• a good EV drive train is a game changer - it just is - it covers soooooooo many sins vs. the crap is that is most mid-range ICE vehicles with crappy transmissions/engines
• I’ve not lived with the Supercharger network since 2019 - it was good then, and it’s only gotten better.
• why did my Tesla Model Y w/CCS adapter start charging “faster” at the Willows, CA EA charger than my Taycan does? Electron’s were flowing before the Porsche app had even acknowledged it had started the session
  • Tesla’s charging “game” even on the car side is vastly better
  • a Tesla at a CCS EA charger is still better than my native CCS Taycan - how is that possible?
• The Supercharger NACS connector/cable is simply better ergonomics vs. CCS1 - it’s easier to handle, easier to insert, less likely to have problems being inserted and just an all around better product - design matters - Tesla has it and CCS1 doesn’t.
• Model Y xx% to 55% SOC is “as fast” if not faster than my Taycan at a full/functional 350 kW EA station - it is however quite a bit slower charging from 55% - 9x%
  • honestly at a V3 supercharging you’re to 60% SOC in like 12 minutes - fast than any bath room walk and back to the car - your bath room break can not beat the supercharger to 60%…car will be done before you are.
• V3 superchargers routinely/commonly/universally gave me 250 kW charging rate until about 35% - and then the taper begins - I’m not sure what all the fuss is about for 800V vs. 400V - superchargers are killing it and routinely delivery 250 kW charge rates
  • I’m an engineer and I do understand what all the “fuss” should be about, but honestly at the end of the day the difference doesn’t appear in any tangible way to the consumer.
• Tesla software is just soooo much better than everyone else’s - software is a _FACT OF LIFE_ for any modern car - quit apologizing for your favorite car vendor and consoling yourself that you brought it for the “driving” - a great mechanical vehicle does not in fact make up for being infuriated on a daily/hourly basis with your vehicle software sucking.
• Supercharger session activation is world class - it “just works” and works so well - electrons are flowing before I can walk from the back of the car to the driver’s seat (this never happens with EA even when the session is “free” and starts automatically).
• I timed it once - from the time I pressed the “park button” on the transmission stalk to electrons flowing at my supercharger stop was 18 seconds…everything about supercharging vs. CCS1 is just “better” and “functional”.
• Until you’ve used a supercharger and seen just how well it “works” you have no idea how much better it is and how much it makes traveling better to have a well designed and very very functional charging network.
• With regards to charging in North America - Tesla is playing 4D chess, and the other guys aren’t even playing a game or in the same sports venue, they are just sitting there picking their noses and pointing at each other saying it’s not their fault.
• 48 (forty eight!!!!) functional Tesla supercharger stalls in Sutherland, OR less than 800 feet away is a 4 stall EA site - on the day I was there - 48 functional stalls - activation in less than 20 seconds, and 250 kW charge rate _NO_ problem - 3 of the 4 EA stalls less than 800 feet away were “unavailable’ and the lone ID.4 that was charging at the one functional EA stall was doing so with a “reduced charge rate” warning and getting less than 45 kW at 15% SOC…
  • I was in/out of Sutherland, OR with 250 kW charge rate and leaving in less than 25 min at over 90% SOC from 10% SOC
• Tesla’s mechanically may not be Porsche’s quality but they are good enough - and equal/better/same as most of the vehicle’s most people are driving. The model Y is reasonable
• Tesla lies about its range, the Model Y is not a 290-320 mile vehicle, but I’m getting about 230-250 miles range on a full charge which is a bit more than my 2020 Taycan turbo - but both cars can drive about the same distance between fast chargers on the north/south I-5 route. The difference is the Model Y is doing it with a 75 kWh battery and the Taycan’s doing it with a 93 kWh battery…
• Tesla’s integrated NAV is fantastic/functional and very very good at charge route planning
  • Tesla’s predictions for battery @ destination is accurate to +/- 2% - very very reliable - LOL the car “lies about it’s range” - the “battery icon” will show 320 miles range, but the Navigation will show you’re stopping in Sutherland, OR in 230 miles with 10% remaining battery - the car itself carry’s it own range “lies/contradictions”
  • trust the navigation but point and laugh at the battery guess o meter…
• I’ve done zero charge stop planning - and it hasn’t been necessary - the supercharger network is that good
• Model Y’s acceleration is “ample” and “effective” - on paper it’s not as fast as my Taycan Turbo - in practice any actual real/imagined difference is inconsequential outside of launch/control mode - in day to day driving the Model Y is quick, quick, quick, and can dominate most any other non-EV on the road - uphill is a dream in an EV - and highway overtakes and lane changes are trivial, effective, and devastating vs. unprepared less ICE vehicles…
  • again compared to most anemic SUV’s - the EV drive train that is nearly as fast as my Porsche Taycan Turbo is light years better than 98% of the ICE alternatives you could purchase
  • you have to purchase a Cayenne Turbo to be quicker than a Tesla Model Y AWD non-performance…Macan? Don’t make me laugh if what you want is a responsive drive train with ample acceleration.
• A good solid, well done EV drive train is a game changing experience vs. 98% of normal ICE vehicle’s - say what you will about Tesla - but I don’t think their drive trains are something you can throw rocks at
• Porsche is wrong about one-pedal driving - it should be an “option” - but not required.
• Tesla’s preconditioning software and status is vastly better than Porsches
• Tesla’s energy app (trip data, consumption, analysis, logs and insights) is a data nerd’s dream - it’s just sooooo good and even tells you exactly how much when/where you are gaining and losing range
  • this makes Tesla “lying” about vehicle range even more embarrassing - it’s clear from their own “energy” app that they know exactly to the “milli-amp/volt” where the power is going and why…
  • they should be ashamed that their advertising/guess-o-meter “lie” about the range
  • their navigation/trip-data/energy app are rock solid data-driven/science driven affairs that are highly accurate/informative
• Did I tell you how game changing it is to have a reliable and available fast charging network that is also easy to use?
• I’d rather be driving my Taycan - but also it’s cargo capacity for this trip was inadequate
• While Tesla is acceptable, i prefer my Porsche’s - but the level of quality of the Tesla charging network can NOT be under-estimated, and it’s only gotten vastly better since my last use of it in 2019
• laugh if you well at in car “entertainment” software - the streaming clients building into the main dash is a game changing experience for any road trip activities

My Taycan + Supercharging would be ideal - the network is just soooooo good and well run that EA looks like a sad dysfunctional shell of a company vs. a sleek/functional supercharging network. CCS1 as a physical/human/ergonomic design is 100% fail - I had this opinion before this trip and coming back to NACS after being away for 3 years - NACS is just better - fact - get over it. Your life _IS_ better with an NACS cable/connector vs. CCS1 horrible and human hostile design.

There is no question the Taycan is a better car, but it is effectively is a worse EV due to a number of non-mechanical factors - and most of it’s “advantages” as an EV are either unrealized or marketing spin with no actual tangible manifested benefits. to most people It’s a mechanically excellent car handicapped by a terrible and debilitating charging network and mediocre vehicle software. Most of it’s actual advantages are inconsequential to 90% of the driving public.

The Model Y on the other hand is a minimalist functional SUV that is approachable and works really well - if you look closely it’s not as good as the Taycan on a number of physical design issues, but the it’s deficiencies are lost on most people, and it’s better than most SUVs it’s competing against. And no matter how good the Porsche is - when you point it north from SF Bay are on I-5 to go to Friday harbor and need to chargr it - there is one clear and decisive winner…and it’s not the Porsche or CCS network…

The Tesla Model Y is “good enough” and occasionally great but the Supercharger network is next level “good” - it’s the Porsche of EV charging networks and it shows - it’s just vastly better. And now big enough and ubiquitous enough that you can drive with impunity and zero planning.

I’m not buying a Tesla vehicle anytime soon nor am I considering going back.

But I’m never again buying an EV without access to the supercharger network in North America - it’s just self flagellation to subject yourself to the EA network when there is a more functional higher quality alternative…

Tesla’s Supercharging in North America is the “Porsche” of fast charging networks - the existing CCS network is a broken down Yugo on the side of the road that no one is willing to take any responsibility for or seems to realize needs fixing.

I’m a long time EV owners (since 2011) - former Tesla victim/customer - avid EV road warrior and deeply experienced EV road trip participant…I’m writing this up from some perspectives from a current (ongoing trip) from the SF Bay area to Friday Harbor, WA and back - currently at Burlington but will be back in SF Bay are monday/tuesday…

I have not road tripped a Tesla since about 2019 - and I got my Taycan in July of 2020 so that’s been my EV road trip “touch stone” since then.

in the past 4 days I’ve spend some quality time in a 2023 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD. And having done identical trips with the Taycan I’m finding the experience with Model Y illuminating. Below are various bullet points in no particular order…

Summary/TLDR; - road tripping with a reliable and ubiquitous fast charging network is a game changing experience - Tesla has it and no one else does (North America) - period, full stop you do not get to argue this point. This is the first time ever since I began with EV’s that I did “zero” pre-planning for my trip - in August of 2023 the Supercharger network is now _THAT_ good and available on north/south I-5 route for west coast United states.

Bullet thoughts:

• Tesla’s seats while adequate - truly suck - they are plush but lack support for my legs - they are good enough for mid range, but I miss my 14-way w/Massage
• Road noise is again acceptable, but not as good as my Taycan
• ride quality is acceptable but again not as good as Porsche air suspension
• Model Y’s lane keeping/ACC (auto-pilot) is vastly better than Porsche Innodrive
• Model Y cabin is light/airy, but sparse
• Tesla app is really good / i miss a good vehicle app
• Tesla’s phone as a key/fob implementation is excellent - they really nailed it
• for it’s price point $52k pre-rebates/incentives - I honestly can’t think other another SUV/EV I’d rather have for it’s price - the ICE alternatives are also not Porsche’s and suck way way more than Tesla’s well done Model Y with an excellent EV drive train.
• a good EV drive train is a game changer - it just is - it covers soooooooo many sins vs. the crap is that is most mid-range ICE vehicles with crappy transmissions/engines
• I’ve not lived with the Supercharger network since 2019 - it was good then, and it’s only gotten better.
• why did my Tesla Model Y w/CCS adapter start charging “faster” at the Willows, CA EA charger than my Taycan does? Electron’s were flowing before the Porsche app had even acknowledged it had started the session
  • Tesla’s charging “game” even on the car side is vastly better
  • a Tesla at a CCS EA charger is still better than my native CCS Taycan - how is that possible?
• The Supercharger NACS connector/cable is simply better ergonomics vs. CCS1 - it’s easier to handle, easier to insert, less likely to have problems being inserted and just an all around better product - design matters - Tesla has it and CCS1 doesn’t.
• Model Y xx% to 55% SOC is “as fast” if not faster than my Taycan at a full/functional 350 kW EA station - it is however quite a bit slower charging from 55% - 9x%
  • honestly at a V3 supercharging you’re to 60% SOC in like 12 minutes - fast than any bath room walk and back to the car - your bath room break can not beat the supercharger to 60%…car will be done before you are.
• V3 superchargers routinely/commonly/universally gave me 250 kW charging rate until about 35% - and then the taper begins - I’m not sure what all the fuss is about for 800V vs. 400V - superchargers are killing it and routinely delivery 250 kW charge rates
  • I’m an engineer and I do understand what all the “fuss” should be about, but honestly at the end of the day the difference doesn’t appear in any tangible way to the consumer.
• Tesla software is just soooo much better than everyone else’s - software is a _FACT OF LIFE_ for any modern car - quit apologizing for your favorite car vendor and consoling yourself that you brought it for the “driving” - a great mechanical vehicle does not in fact make up for being infuriated on a daily/hourly basis with your vehicle software sucking.
• Supercharger session activation is world class - it “just works” and works so well - electrons are flowing before I can walk from the back of the car to the driver’s seat (this never happens with EA even when the session is “free” and starts automatically).
• I timed it once - from the time I pressed the “park button” on the transmission stalk to electrons flowing at my supercharger stop was 18 seconds…everything about supercharging vs. CCS1 is just “better” and “functional”.
• Until you’ve used a supercharger and seen just how well it “works” you have no idea how much better it is and how much it makes traveling better to have a well designed and very very functional charging network.
• With regards to charging in North America - Tesla is playing 4D chess, and the other guys aren’t even playing a game or in the same sports venue, they are just sitting there picking their noses and pointing at each other saying it’s not their fault.
• 48 (forty eight!!!!) functional Tesla supercharger stalls in Sutherland, OR less than 800 feet away is a 4 stall EA site - on the day I was there - 48 functional stalls - activation in less than 20 seconds, and 250 kW charge rate _NO_ problem - 3 of the 4 EA stalls less than 800 feet away were “unavailable’ and the lone ID.4 that was charging at the one functional EA stall was doing so with a “reduced charge rate” warning and getting less than 45 kW at 15% SOC…
  • I was in/out of Sutherland, OR with 250 kW charge rate and leaving in less than 25 min at over 90% SOC from 10% SOC
• Tesla’s mechanically may not be Porsche’s quality but they are good enough - and equal/better/same as most of the vehicle’s most people are driving. The model Y is reasonable
• Tesla lies about its range, the Model Y is not a 290-320 mile vehicle, but I’m getting about 230-250 miles range on a full charge which is a bit more than my 2020 Taycan turbo - but both cars can drive about the same distance between fast chargers on the north/south I-5 route. The difference is the Model Y is doing it with a 75 kWh battery and the Taycan’s doing it with a 93 kWh battery…
• Tesla’s integrated NAV is fantastic/functional and very very good at charge route planning
  • Tesla’s predictions for battery @ destination is accurate to +/- 2% - very very reliable - LOL the car “lies about it’s range” - the “battery icon” will show 320 miles range, but the Navigation will show you’re stopping in Sutherland, OR in 230 miles with 10% remaining battery - the car itself carry’s it own range “lies/contradictions”
  • trust the navigation but point and laugh at the battery guess o meter…
• I’ve done zero charge stop planning - and it hasn’t been necessary - the supercharger network is that good
• Model Y’s acceleration is “ample” and “effective” - on paper it’s not as fast as my Taycan Turbo - in practice any actual real/imagined difference is inconsequential outside of launch/control mode - in day to day driving the Model Y is quick, quick, quick, and can dominate most any other non-EV on the road - uphill is a dream in an EV - and highway overtakes and lane changes are trivial, effective, and devastating vs. unprepared less ICE vehicles…
  • again compared to most anemic SUV’s - the EV drive train that is nearly as fast as my Porsche Taycan Turbo is light years better than 98% of the ICE alternatives you could purchase
  • you have to purchase a Cayenne Turbo to be quicker than a Tesla Model Y AWD non-performance…Macan? Don’t make me laugh if what you want is a responsive drive train with ample acceleration.
• A good solid, well done EV drive train is a game changing experience vs. 98% of normal ICE vehicle’s - say what you will about Tesla - but I don’t think their drive trains are something you can throw rocks at
• Porsche is wrong about one-pedal driving - it should be an “option” - but not required.
• Tesla’s preconditioning software and status is vastly better than Porsches
• Tesla’s energy app (trip data, consumption, analysis, logs and insights) is a data nerd’s dream - it’s just sooooo good and even tells you exactly how much when/where you are gaining and losing range
  • this makes Tesla “lying” about vehicle range even more embarrassing - it’s clear from their own “energy” app that they know exactly to the “milli-amp/volt” where the power is going and why…
  • they should be ashamed that their advertising/guess-o-meter “lie” about the range
  • their navigation/trip-data/energy app are rock solid data-driven/science driven affairs that are highly accurate/informative
• Did I tell you how game changing it is to have a reliable and available fast charging network that is also easy to use?
• I’d rather be driving my Taycan - but also it’s cargo capacity for this trip was inadequate
• While Tesla is acceptable, i prefer my Porsche’s - but the level of quality of the Tesla charging network can NOT be under-estimated, and it’s only gotten vastly better since my last use of it in 2019
• laugh if you well at in car “entertainment” software - the streaming clients building into the main dash is a game changing experience for any road trip activities

My Taycan + Supercharging would be ideal - the network is just soooooo good and well run that EA looks like a sad dysfunctional shell of a company vs. a sleek/functional supercharging network. CCS1 as a physical/human/ergonomic design is 100% fail - I had this opinion before this trip and coming back to NACS after being away for 3 years - NACS is just better - fact - get over it. Your life _IS_ better with an NACS cable/connector vs. CCS1 horrible and human hostile design.

There is no question the Taycan is a better car, but it is effectively is a worse EV due to a number of non-mechanical factors - and most of it’s “advantages” as an EV are either unrealized or marketing spin with no actual tangible manifested benefits. to most people It’s a mechanically excellent car handicapped by a terrible and debilitating charging network and mediocre vehicle software. Most of it’s actual advantages are inconsequential to 90% of the driving public.

The Model Y on the other hand is a minimalist functional SUV that is approachable and works really well - if you look closely it’s not as good as the Taycan on a number of physical design issues, but the it’s deficiencies are lost on most people, and it’s better than most SUVs it’s competing against. And no matter how good the Porsche is - when you point it north from SF Bay are on I-5 to go to Friday harbor and need to chargr it - there is one clear and decisive winner…and it’s not the Porsche or CCS network…

The Tesla Model Y is “good enough” and occasionally great but the Supercharger network is next level “good” - it’s the Porsche of EV charging networks and it shows - it’s just vastly better. And now big enough and ubiquitous enough that you can drive with impunity and zero planning.

I’m not buying a Tesla vehicle anytime soon nor am I considering going back.

But I’m never again buying an EV without access to the supercharger network in North America - it’s just self flagellation to subject yourself to the EA network when there is a more functional higher quality alternative…

Tesla’s Supercharging in North America is the “Porsche” of fast charging networks - the existing CCS network is a broken down Yugo on the side of the road that no one is willing to take any responsibility for or seems to realize needs fixing.

Thank you Dave. A very comprehensive comparison and a big reminder of the superiority of Tesla superchargers. I am reminded however of banter between two Top Gear TV presenters comparing a BMW 8 series with an Aston Martin ‘Yes the BMW is cheaper but would you want to lick it’. I have the same feeling about the bland blobby model Y - I would not lick it, but my Taycan - well say no more. Buying the Taycan was an emotional buy and I see Tesla as exciting as buying a washing machine.

 

[Replika]

All of this x100.

You just don’t know until you’ve owned both Tesla and CCS cars.

 

[gtm]

Summary/TLDR; - road tripping with a reliable and ubiquitous fast charging network is a game changing experience - Tesla has it and no one else does (North America) - period, full stop you do not get to argue this point. This is the first time ever since I began with EV’s that I did “zero” pre-planning for my trip - in August of 2023 the Supercharger network is now _THAT_ good and available on north/south I-5 route for west coast United states.
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There is no question the Taycan is a better car, but it is effectively is a worse EV due to a number of non-mechanical factors - and most of it’s “advantages” as an EV are either unrealized or marketing spin with no actual tangible manifested benefits. to most people It’s a mechanically excellent car handicapped by a terrible and debilitating charging network and mediocre vehicle software. Most of it’s actual advantages are inconsequential to 90% of the driving public.

TLDR: What Daveo4EV said.

@daveo4EV has covered a lot of territory. I'll limit my comments to road tripping. EA is horrible. The Porsche software is unreliable, which makes it worthless at times.

My wife and I drive between NJ and Florida multiple times a year. We've gone up and down Route 95 (a highly traveled road) and also via Route 81 (a more rural route but still a major highway). 3 1/2 years in a Tesla Model S. As @daveo4EV stated, it took no preplanning. Get in the car, enter the destination and go. On the 3 trips so far in the Taycan the route planner was fine at selecting the route. The charging planner just showed the spinning circle of death for an entire day on every trip (and magically worked fine on the other day). Change the destination to just the next charging stop and it still spun and would not calculate the estimated battery level upon arrival. The navigation map would also intermittently fail to display any chargers along the route. Software, or more likely a problem connecting to the Porsche servers? Regardless of the reason this is a huge failure. ABRP and PlugShare are an absolute requirement in the Taycan. Didn't use either one while road tripping in the Tesla.

We just completed our 3rd trip in the Taycan and I made notes this time. 8 charging stops on the 1,100 mile trip. Far more than was required had I felt confident using more of the driving range the car is capable of. 3 stops went the way they should have with the equipment working properly. Every other stop had some inoperative equipment, 3 delivered significantly reduced power, 2 required waiting in line to charge, 1 at a Porsche dealer failed completely. They can't even maintain their own equipment. This required a 20 minute detour to an EA station I knew sucked and was trying to avoid, where I got a wonderful 50kW peak charge rate, and then 20 minutes backtracking. 50 kW on a 150 unit is pathetic but just to really tweak a frustrated EA user the cabinets proudly display a message along the lines of "reduced power to improve service". Two of the stops have been on reduced power and displaying that message since our previous trip in May. 3 months without a repair. One stop had 2 of the 4 towers down but technicians were actually there. I did get 174 kW from a 150 unit and only waited 20 minutes to charge and they were actually attempting repairs. Do I count that as a good stop? By EA standards I guess it was.

The general driving public just wants to get somewhere with minimal trouble. The CCS network in the US is doing it's best to actively discourage EV adoption. It's really quite astounding how truly inconvenient (bad) it is. The Taycan is a wonderful car to drive and between charging stops it brings a smile to my face. I can live with the software flaws as those can be fixed over time. Come replacement time in a couple of years there won't be a Porsche in my future without access to the Tesla Supercharger network or a massive improvement in the CCS infrastructure. As a road trip car it fails primarily due to the charging network it is anchored to.