[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[cardriva]

software compensation and trick suspension design to a point…but I get your point, but also head to head - eV to EV to EV - everyone who's driven a Saphire on track says they'd take it over a Taycan…and the Gravity is coming in at slightly less weight that the Saphire Air…

so on the driving dynamics front Lucid can compete with the germans for similar size and weight cars…and has better software, range, efficiency…

Who said this? Any source

 

[daveo4EV]

Who said this? Any source

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45504278/2024-lucid-air-sapphire-drive/
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/lucid/air-sapphire/first-drive

Here’s the exact quote you’re looking for from Top Gear:

“This is, without question, the best‑handling EV on sale today – a car so all‑encompassingly satisfying it'll make any dyed‑in‑the‑wool gearhead a believer in electric power.”lucidowners.comreddit.com+2topgear.com+2lucidowners.com+2

That sums it up perfectly—Top Gear didn’t just rave—it awarded the Air Sapphire the title of best-handling EV available today.

How's the handling?

Out-freaking-standing. The steering is crisp and perfectly weighted, and you can feel exactly what's happening at road level. The torque-vectoring system works quickly to move power across the rear axle in a way that's completely natural – like, you never feel like electronics are artificially enhancing the fun.

The Sapphire is light and tossable – well, as tossable as a car this heavy can be, anyway – and every action it makes is fully on the driver's terms. You can steer it with the throttle through bends and dialing in some countersteer through a corner won't send the Air into a tizzy. It's very clearly been engineered by people who know what they're doing. Legit, this thing's an absolute ripper.

Verdict Lucid Air Sapphire: the best-handling sedan in the history of the world. Or maybe the best-handling car, period.

Jason Cammisa
Hagerty

 

[Der-Schwabe]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45504278/2024-lucid-air-sapphire-drive/
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/lucid/air-sapphire/first-drive
Here’s the exact quote you’re looking for from Top Gear:


That sums it up perfectly—Top Gear didn’t just rave—it awarded the Air Sapphire the title of best-handling EV available today.

Hmm, this is a "first drive" review from October 2023 based on one journalist's review. Curious that it did not make it into the Top 20 BEVs published in March this year (the Taycan made it to position #4):

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/top-gears-top-20-electric-cars

It also did not get a mention in the "Top Gear's Electric Awards 2025: the best EVs in the world right now" in May this year:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...electric-awards-2025-best-evs-world-right-now

where the Taycan Turbo GT was listed as the "Best EV super saloon". Make of that what you will...

 

[chun]

Hmm, this is a "first drive" review from October 2023 based on one journalist's review. Curious that it did not make it into the Top 20 BEVs published in March this year (the Taycan made it to position #4):

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/top-gears-top-20-electric-cars

It also did not get a mention in the "Top Gear's Electric Awards 2025: the best EVs in the world right now" in May this year:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...electric-awards-2025-best-evs-world-right-now

where the Taycan Turbo GT was listed as the "Best EV super saloon". Make of that what you will...

Well, as someone that drove both; I would say that Lucid is and always was on par with J1.1 Taycan Turbo. Which was always incredible, as it featured a much simpler and cheaper spring suspension, compared to the much more complex and capable air suspension on the Taycan.

Now, something you missed in those years, J1.2 facelift introduces active ride, which is on another level. So a j1.2 taycan with active ride, like the Turbo GT, is definitely more capable and a completely different experience than a Lucid or a j1.1

But the difference is made based on 1 single feature of the taycan j1.2. Were Lucid to release a facelift of their car, with a similar active suspension, I have no doubts that it will keep up or overcome the Taycan.

Lucid, unlike the Taycan, is made on a bespoke electric platform, ground up made, with design made fit for purpose, while the engineering took front row - while taycan is a repurposed platform made to fit a design. So it will always have the edge, unless Taycan changes their platform vastly.

Lucid is better than taycan j1.2 in many aspect also, such as space, comfort, ease of access, software and support.

This is my oponion that drives every day a j1.1, test drove multiple active ride optioned j1.2 and test drove multiple trims of Lucid.

 

[daveo4EV]

as to if vendor "A" is +1 vs. Porsche or Porsche is +1 vs. any other vendor - that is a constantly moving target…and on any given day one car may or may not equal the other and by next year another advance will give one of the vendor's an advantage until the others catch up…

but realistically there is no longer a huge gap between what Porsche is producing and what other can produce if they try…and there are some vendors that at trying.

bottom line: you can buy another EV that either is equal or barely not-equal to a point where it won't matter - you don't have to compromise on the "car stuff" to get your non-Porsche EV…

it's so close as to not matter.

now compare the car's "off track" and normal driving I'd suggest you'd be hard pressed to say the sapphire isn't in the same league as a Taycan for any road legal driving scenarios and even in "extra-legal" circumstances…so where is Porsche secret sauce?

• styling: generally speaking I love Porsche - +1 to Porsche
• acceleration: no advantage - in fact Porsche loses because only in launch control are they competitive - most EV's are quicker than porsche in "un prepared" acceleration
• quality/luxury - let's remember the Taycan experience - neutral no advantage
• handling - Porsche can and has been equalled - no real advantage in 99.9% driving circumstances
• track performance - they currently lack the ring record - other vendor has that for the moment
• brakes - Porsche maintains a slight advantage but some EV vendors are not doing decent brakes
• technology/software - Porsche loses badly
• OTA - no effective OTA mechanism leading to increased dealer visits for "simple" fixes/updates
• price - Porsche's pricing is getting less competitive not more competitive
• efficiency range - Porsche is not the vendor you look to for leadership in this space
• packaging - vehicle packaging for EV's is not where Porsche leads
• charging performance - Porsche generally has top tier (near best if not the best) fast charging performance and charging curves

for me when comparing what's available and what advantages Porsche actually brings to the table for an EV - well it's harder and harder to "go Porsche" - where as for my 911's it's a clear win to buy the Porsche product for a number of reasons…

Porsche is weak sauce in EV-land and they don't seem motivated to be the best in this space - they are leaving that to others…

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

I have to agree that Porsche loses a big part of it's appeal compared to other brands in the EV world because of the lack of an ICE. For a sportscar, other than a supercar like a Ferrari or Lambo, the Porsche has the best sound and feel of any car on the planet. Engine, steering, brakes, chassis, suspension are all areas where Porsche is the best, or very close to it. Porsche ICE cars are incredibly light and this contributes to superior performance in virtually all of these areas.

EV cars level the field considerably because of the massive battery weight diminishing the steering, brakes, and suspension advantages of a light car. Porsche has lost their main feature - the engine response, sound and performance - so much better than anything else. Yes they probably have the best chassis, steering, handling and best braking car, but the difference is minimized because of the extreme weight.

As stated above and by multiple posters, their technology/software is poor and falling farther behind rivals who have much superior driver interfaces and software.

At this point, they really don't have the great advantage over other cars that they once had, and the EV world is going to be tough going for them.

 

[tigerbalm]

while taycan is a repurposed platform made to fit a design.

Huh? What "repurposed platform" is the Taycan supposed to be, given that it is only one of three platforms that are entirely unique to Porsche? The 911, 718 and Taycan are totally native platforms to Porsche. The Cayenne, Panamera and Macan are shared with Audi.

 

[chun]

Huh? What "repurposed platform" is the Taycan supposed to be, given that it is only one of three platforms that are entirely unique to Porsche? The 911, 718 and Taycan are totally native platforms to Taycan. The Cayenne, Panamera and Macan are shared with Audi.

From what I remember from the porsche catalog I have, taycan started as “porsche vision turismo”, a 4 door built on the 918 platform. While exploring the idea, they decided on an electric powertrain and the platform was modified to fit that.

Now I could be remembering wrong, but even looking at the packaging of the taycan, where the middle pillars are and all of that, it doesn’t look like a ground up 4 door EV platform, say like Lucid’s, Rivian’s or Xiaomi’s

I doubt we will see any other car built on this j1 platform. It will likely be heavily modified and called j2, essentially a new platform , or will be dropped completely and replaced

 

[f1eng]

Hmm, this is a "first drive" review from October 2023 based on one journalist's review. Curious that it did not make it into the Top 20 BEVs published in March this year (the Taycan made it to position #4):

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/top-gears-top-20-electric-cars

It also did not get a mention in the "Top Gear's Electric Awards 2025: the best EVs in the world right now" in May this year:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...electric-awards-2025-best-evs-world-right-now

where the Taycan Turbo GT was listed as the "Best EV super saloon". Make of that what you will...

The Lucid isn't available in most places, including the UK, so probably only a side interest to a UK magazine.

There are hardly any light cars any more and Porsches are not particularly light any more and getting good throttle response and an exciting sound eliminates turbo engines, so most IC engined cars including Porsches, are of little interest in that way since efficiency is on the side of low revving turbos with fewer cylinders.

One of my old mates who was a mechanic on Michael Schumacher's car when I was chief engineer there, then chief mechanic at Red Bull got head hunted by Elon Musk who was at a grand prix as a guest.
He found Musk impossible to put up with and joined Lucid. He was a multiple 911 owner and he said to me I'd be impressed by the Lucid - and I'd take his judgement over any journalist or enthusiast.

Of course I will never have a chance to drive one...

 

[Der-Schwabe]

The Lucid isn't available in most places, including the UK, so probably only a side interest to a UK magazine.

There are hardly any light cars any more and Porsches are not particularly light any more and getting good throttle response and an exciting sound eliminates turbo engines, so most IC engined cars including Porsches, are of little interest in that way since efficiency is on the side of low revving turbos with fewer cylinders.

One of my old mates who was a mechanic on Michael Schumacher's car when I was chief engineer there, then chief mechanic at Red Bull got head hunted by Elon Musk who was at a grand prix as a guest.
He found Musk impossible to put up with and joined Lucid. He was a multiple 911 owner and he said to me I'd be impressed by the Lucid - and I'd take his judgement over any journalist or enthusiast.

Of course I will never have a chance to drive one...

I have no beef with Lucid, indeed it is likely a very well handling car but whether it is better handling than a Taycan may up to individual preferences…?

 

[f1eng]

I have no beef with Lucid, indeed it is likely a very well handling car but whether it is better handling than a Taycan may up to individual preferences…?

Probably, and any difference will probably be negligible to 99.99% of all drivers, whatever they think

 

[daveo4EV]

Probably, and any difference will probably be negligible to 99.99% of all drivers, whatever they think

this remains my point - it's close enough as to not matter - but it's gone well beyond not as good as Porsche…and for a 4000-6000 lbs street car that is doing daily driving duty…well I sort my potential cars into two categories:

• crap
• not-crap

most cars that most people buy are "crap" in numerous dimensions

cars like Porsche (and others) fit into the not-crap category - and with ICE vehicle's Porsche could be top-o-the-heap in the not-crap category…

for EV's - the Porsche "gap" (if there is one) is so small that they can't compete - and they have some glaring deficiencies…

 

[whitex]

Of course I will never have a chance to drive one...

If only someone would invent a mode of travel to allow you to make a trip somewhere where you could test drive a Lucid, maybe even visit your friend who works there and let him show you what the car can do on their test track.

 

[Jonathan S.]

If only someone would invent a mode of travel to allow you to make a trip somewhere where you could test drive a Lucid, maybe even visit your friend who works there and let him show you what the car can do on their test track.

? ?

 

[whitex]

for EV's - the Porsche "gap" (if there is one) is so small that they can't compete - and they have some glaring deficiencies…

The problems is the Porsche price gap is greater than the functionality/drivability/features gap, and that difference seems to be growing. Taycan would likely outsell Model 3 Performance if the base trim was closer to the price of M3P ($55K in USA), especially if it came with a NACS connector in the US (and access to Tesla SC). Maybe Taycan RWD starting at $55K, Taycan 4 at $67K, 4S at $77K and so on. Porsche could still make money on performance and luxury features on top of it.

That said, Porsche marketing team's job is to know how to maximize their profits, so we'll see how they do going forward. Perhaps mass sales is not the direction they want to go, which would be consistent with the fact that they make even Macav EV allocations scarce (e.g. I was told by my dealer last year, so before Trump tariff circus, that there was no Macan EV allocations at that time and none were expected for months). Maybe Porsche marketing is betting on exclusivity of the badge to maximize profit? Maybe they don't want Porsche to become Cybertrucks - overproduced for existing demand? I still don't see it though, maybe they could stop stocking dealers with stock cars, but to limit custom allocations seems like leaving money on the table to me (essentially pre-sold orders close to MSRP). But I'm not a marketing person, so what do I know, right? Let's see what happens to Porsche sales over the next couple of years.