[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[Scandinavian]

It is a very relevant detail, because most people are clueless when it comes to battery other then the one in the TV remote.



Battery manufacturing is highly automated like solar panel production, if not even more so, because prices fell even faster.

Without batteries for the grid, there is no extended grid capacity. Without extended grid capacity, electricity prices go up, hence less EV sales, means less batteries for EVs...

Sorry, but you got to let go of your fascination with T junk. This company is irrelevant on a global scale. CATL and other Chinese manufacturing already suffer from overcapacity and can easily ramp up production.

Americans just don't get it, how good the Chinese are in manufacturing, particularly now, that the export industry is the last leg the Chinese economy is standing on, and all officials on all levels work on it to extend it.

I just have heard why we can see so aggressive pricing from Chinese manufacturers in a podcast.

China government allow about 20% of the companies are running with losses. But the China government thinks that is great ”since it gives employment”

The production of BEV’s in China is now twice the local demand and the overproduction is more than 3 million units! That is going to be solved by exports.

With Trump’s message to put on 100%taxes it will be a major problem for Europe! And the strategy seems to be to wipe out the European producers to give China dominans in EV production.

 

[TXSchnee]

I just have heard why we can see so aggressive pricing from Chinese manufacturers in a podcast.

China government allow about 20% of the companies are running with losses. But the China government thinks that is great ”since it gives employment”

The production of BEV’s in China is now twice the local demand and the overproduction is more than 3 million units! That is going to be solved by exports.

With Trump’s message to put on 100%taxes it will be a major problem for Europe! And the strategy seems to be to wipe out the European producers to give China dominans in EV production.

Biden Administration already has a 100% tariff on all Chinese EVs, which is why there are zero companies looking to move into the US from China. It is hurting Polestar quite a bit, and forcing them to accelerate production to the US for the 3 and 4.

 

[Tooney]

 

[bigkraig]

Agreed, Porsche continuously increasing their prices will cause them to eventually be in the same starting price range as Bentley, Lamborghini, McLaren, etc. (a few options specced out in most vehicles already gets you there anyways). That is not taking into account dealer markup.

Quite sad tbh...

Agreed. After ~10 years of GT cars I have left the brand. IMO the touring, the fake aero on 992.1 GT3, adding back seats to the 992.2 GT3, the MSRP increases, dealer markups. IMO they lost what made it special in order to appease the masses and closed the pricing gap between them and their competitors.

 

[ZenicaNC]

Lucid is STILL a startup. Look what happened to other EV startups in just this past year.

No thanks.

If an established brand with $$$ has hiccups, how did you come to the conclusion a startup will somehow do better?

This isn't 2006 when Tesla was a startup in a lone category they practically created. They also started in California, a much more forgiving place to start an EV than say Montana or Main.
(think winter)

The nearest Lucid service center is 163 miles away, again no thanks. Someone must have forgotten to look up which city in NC is the capital, which city is in the technology triangle and which city has a faster growing population. Honestly though, they could have a service center in my garage and It'd still be a hard pass.

Now that electric Hummer, that might get a second look when it comes time to retire my Cayenne S E-Hybrid. Sorry Porsche, the newer model just isn't my style. I like cockpit controls and the myriad of tactile switches in earlier models. You took those all away. In the Taycan, I can somewhat get over it because it reminds me of Knight Rider and we got it mainly for my wife. For the free electric, I drive it but once that runs out, I prefer my Cayenne.

The few Lucids I see around here just strike me as a kia in California clothing.

 

[moto_geek]

In general the entire auto market and what tech will be king is in a major flex. I'm going to drive my Taycan for a couple more year and see the shake out and not be anyone's guiney pig anymore. I feel the new stuff coming out has been riddled with issues and build quality issues now not to mention the insane pricing.

 

[daveo4EV]

this is going soooo well - I"m sure their renewed focus on ICE legacy technology is clearly the path forward - screw this new EV stuff f- let's go back to exhaust notes and 12 different version of the same engine with slight more/less HP for $10k a pop!

returning to past glory has always gone soooo well for previous legacy industry players…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...gen-stake-of-€20bn-article.22985/#post-350156

 

[amelen]

Ehh, Porsche will always have some natural demand, regardless of the price point. I just got a $185,000 G-Wagon (G580), and similarly it's way over priced, but there is a waiting list out the door (especially for the G63).

And the range on my G580 is just 240 miles

 

[D00notD00d]

With Trump’s message to put on 100%taxes it will be a major problem for Europe! And the strategy seems to be to wipe out the European producers to give China dominans in EV production.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...inese-evs-risking-beijing-payback-2024-10-29/

 

[Tooney]

this is going soooo well - I"m sure their renewed focus on ICE legacy technology is clearly the path forward - screw this new EV stuff f- let's go back to exhaust notes and 12 different version of the same engine with slight more/less HP for $10k a pop!

returning to past glory has always gone soooo well for previous legacy industry players…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/porsche-holding-company-writedown-in-volkswagen-stake-of-€20bn-article.22985/#post-350156

Let's convert that Zuffenhausen factory back to building more 911s....
Will the Porsche Taycan be made in Leipzig in the future?

 

[Scandinavian]

Let's convert that Zuffenhausen factory back to building more 911s....
Will the Porsche Taycan be made in Leipzig in the future?

Seems like the demand got Taycan is taking a tumble also in Germany.

I looked the other day and there are currently about 300+ Taycan J1.ll listed at Porsche dealers

And there are about 900 J1.l listed ( most used but a few new ones).

And that is only the German Market!

Seems like message from the general public to Porsche!

 

[daveo4EV]

you can't evaluate sales/inventory without also considering pricing - the Taycan is very very expensive even by Porsche's standards for what it is vs. the competition - it was selling fine until they've raised the prices - even my local dealer agrees with me Porsche has sabotaged the Taycan - he has customers that just lease (1 year and/or 2 year) and just swap the lease to the next one when he old lease is due - they do it like clock work…well that was until the new Taycan was $1200/month more lease payment than their previous Taycan…these are EV customers that are shocked at the price increase and they go across the street and lease a BMW iM60 eV…

Porsche is not only running away from EV's - they are sabotaging the one's they have…

 

[Der-Schwabe]

Let's convert that Zuffenhausen factory back to building more 911s....
Will the Porsche Taycan be made in Leipzig in the future?

Luckily not a lot of speculation...?

 

[A.Mayor]

Seems like the demand got Taycan is taking a tumble also in Germany.

I looked the other day and there are currently about 300+ Taycan J1.ll listed at Porsche dealers

And there are about 900 J1.l listed ( most used but a few new ones).

And that is only the German Market!

Seems like message from the general public to Porsche!

Hmmm, so that’s approximately 0.0006% and 0.0018% of new and old models, respectively, in a market with an estimated 49 mln passenger vehicles.

So, the “message from the general public to Porsche” is kind of a moot point.

A more likely reason you might be skipping over is that buyers in the second-hand market for these types of cars are feeling the squeeze as the German economy slows down. Add to that the general dip in EV sales in Germany — there could be loads of reasons — one reasonable cause being the end of government subsidies for EVs.

 

[whitex]

Hmmm, so that’s approximately 0.0006% and 0.0018% of new and old models, respectively, in a market with an estimated 49 mln passenger vehicles.

True, but how many of those 49mln vehicles are Porsches or similar? How many of those are looking to replace them within the next 3 months? That would give you an approximate addressable market size. We can ignore the number of 16 year olds who just got their driver's license and can afford a new Taycan as their first car.

An even better way to look at it is how many Taycans were sold in Germany last month, then compare it to the size of the inventory.