[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[whitex]

Not surprising at all.

There’s big and easy money to be won — no way Porsche SE is going to pass up this opportunity of a lifetime!

Porsche SE et al always home in on wherever money flows.

With €150 billion for European rearmament and Germany’s €1 trillion earmarked for military upgrades (among other things), it’s only natural.

Closed car factories are being repurposed for the military industry … there are even calls for everyone to join the fray.

Then they will need a war to ramp up profits.

 

[daveo4EV]

so you're telling me there will be:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2

Leopard 2 - Base - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 4 - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 4S - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GTS - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GTS 4 - convertble & coupe
Leopard 2 Turbo - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 TurboS - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GT - coupe
Leopard 2 GT RS - this will be mostly unobtainium and have a 37 lbs weight reduction with some Carbon fibre trim bits…

wonder what CXX options there will be…

I wonder what the ADM will be on these suckers…

 

[whitex]

so you're telling me there will be:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2

Leopard 2 - Base - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 4 - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 4S - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GTS - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GTS 4 - convertble & coupe
Leopard 2 Turbo - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 TurboS - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GT - coupe
Leopard 2 GT RS - this will be mostly unobtainium and have a 37 lbs weight reduction with some Carbon fibre trim bits…

wonder what CXX options there will be…

I wonder what the ADM will be on these suckers…

NF rated tracks only, $250K per side, or warranty void?

 

[chun]

NF rated tracks only, $250K per side, or warranty void?

And if they scratch they brake the steering column; 500k repair bill

Hopefully they use real protection plate on the bottom, to avoid totaling the tank due to a 3mm scratch on the underside

 

[whitex]

And if they scratch they brake the steering column; 500k repair bill

Hopefully they use real protection plate on the bottom, to avoid totaling the tank due to a 3mm scratch on the underside

This is military weapons. No warranty covers acts of war. When it dies, if there is anything left of it. you just hit the self-destruct button and order a new one.

 

[A.Mayor]

Then they will need a war to ramp up profits.

Fear and uncertainty should suffice

 

[A.Mayor]

And if they scratch they brake the steering column; 500k repair bill

Hopefully they use real protection plate on the bottom, to avoid totaling the tank due to a 3mm scratch on the underside

Ahaha, that’s nothing — Porsche would look like a thrift store next to what defense contractors casually charge. This whole project would be a capital paradise for them.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

Leopard Weissach edition. Weight reduction achieved through removal of weapons and ammunition. Very fast tank though.

 

[Tooney]

How is the cabin heat during the winter?

 

[whitex]

Fear and uncertainty should suffice

Only short term. Once the weapon stockpiles overflow, you need a war to purge them.

 

[SteveDC]

vs. the competence demonstrated by Porsche for servicing EV's with them never having a "trained" tech available or in very very limited supply or parts for EV's are on back order for months?

Or having to drop the car at porsche service for days/weeks for a software update since they can't do OTA?

when I make the decision service network will be considered - but by then it will be clear if Lucid has enough infrastructure to be reasonable…

but so far given the lack of "focus" on EV's by Porsche and it's service centers, I'll at least take an EV centric manufacturer over legacy guy where EV's are the minority product and they really have no idea what they are doing...

also Lucid is already "adequate" in my area for servicing/supporting their product

but please, don't tell me the legacy guys have "superior" service for EV's when they barely undersand their product, and every service call requires them to call the mother ship for a 3-15 day delay in figuring out the problem - Porsche's vaunted service network hasn't really been an asset in terms of managing the blizzard of recalls for Taycan…

I've owned Porsche's for 15+ years - the service network "concern" about why you don't go with another option is:

• FUD
• ignores common and demonstrable shortfalls of existing manufacturers
• plans for failure vs. success - I'd prefer to believe I won't need service that often
• assumes the service network is competent - when in fact with EV's I've found the service netwwork with ICE vendors to be a liability since they 'don't know their product' and 'lack focus'
  • they have 20 ICE mechanics, and 2 EV "certified" mechanics
  • all of the mechanics at Tesla/Polestar/Rivian/Lucid are "EV certified" mechanics - because they DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE!

and the existing guys just don't understand EV's and don't seem interested in learning

also any EV centric brand is not building a business model out of "vehicle service" - the ICE guys seem to want to recapture their past glory with service being their main profit center - $2500 for the 24 month Macan EV "service" - which is nothing more than an "inspection" - not even an actual service where anything is actually done?

I scoff at anyone trotting out an existing legacy ICE dealer service network as an advantage when it come to selling/supporting EV's - my actual factual experience has been they are more liability than asset - and I've been driving EV's since 2011…

at least none of the EV centric brands ever told me their "EV guy wasn't in the shop for the next couple of days"…

I seems you have conceded Tooney’s point, Dave. And then you go on to argue against points he didn’t make. Hm? I get your frustration and justified complaints about servicing shortfalls by Porsche. I’ve had similar concerns myself. Like you, I would place most of the responsibility on the company, and not dealers, in my experience, who are caught in the middle.

 

[A.Mayor]

Only short term. Once the weapon stockpiles overflow, you need a war to purge them.

Luckily (or rather unfortunately), there’s never a shortage of invisible hands to keep arsenals busy and budgets bleeding.

 

[Tooney]

Porsche Automobil Holding SE (OTCMKTSOAHY) Receives Consensus Recommendation of “Reduce” from Analysts

 

[Tooney]

so you're telling me there will be:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2

Leopard 2 - Base - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 4 - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 4S - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GTS - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GTS 4 - convertble & coupe
Leopard 2 Turbo - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 TurboS - convertable & coupe
Leopard 2 GT - coupe
Leopard 2 GT RS - this will be mostly unobtainium and have a 37 lbs weight reduction with some Carbon fibre trim bits…

wonder what CXX options there will be…

I wonder what the ADM will be on these suckers…

Opinion German tanks are failing in Ukraine for the same reasons they lost World War II

 

[daveo4EV]

Opinion German tanks are failing in Ukraine for the same reasons they lost World War II

very difficult to fix if damaged or broken down

just like a Porsche.

Just 18 Leopard 2s have been supplied to Ukraine!

just like Porsche - low volume manufacturer

The first issue identified is how difficult it is for Ukraine soldiers to mend these tanks and keep them battle worthy. If the engine breaks down it must be taken hundreds of miles for repair in a specialist facility

yep - sounds german to me…

Secondly, these multi-million-pound tanks have become very susceptible to the ubiquitous $500 drones, which destroy them at an alarming rate

3.3 mm damage to the battery tray of your Taycan - sounds familiar to me…

The third shortfall is ‘mass’ or numbers, simply put. The Germans lost WW2 because they could not match the mass the Allies could generate. For instance, in the later stages of the war the Allies produced around 60,000 Sherman tanks, which eventually overwhelmed the more sophisticated and capable Tiger and Panther tanks because the Germans only had a few thousand of these.

German auto vs. China lower cost and higher volume EV's