[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[f1eng]

Another SUV

from early reviews the Gravity builds on the Saphire's driving dynamics but moves it to the people mover form factor…

Who repealed the laws of physics?

 

[daveo4EV]

Another SUV

Who repealed the laws of physics?

software compensation and trick suspension design to a point…but I get your point, but also head to head - eV to EV to EV - everyone who's driven a Saphire on track says they'd take it over a Taycan…and the Gravity is coming in at slightly less weight that the Saphire Air…

so on the driving dynamics front Lucid can compete with the germans for similar size and weight cars…and has better software, range, efficiency…

 

[f1eng]

software compensation and trick suspension design to a point…but I get your point, but also head to head - eV to EV to EV - everyone who's driven a Saphire on track says they'd take it over a Taycan…and the Gravity is coming in at slightly less weight that the Saphire Air…

so on the driving dynamics front Lucid can compete with the germans for similar size and weight cars…and has better software, range, efficiency…

One of my mates is a senior guy at Lucid. He is smart and tenacious and knows about driving dynamics, so I don't doubt it.

They probably won't be available here in my lifetime and I'd need to get one on a consultation basis anyway - too expensive for me to actually buy.

I am happy with the Porsche software important to me (so far) - brake feel, ride/handling compromise, PDCC, rear wheel steer and torque vectoring work well. My CT4S has enough power fo these roads since we have no straight roads with multiple lanes and traffic lights drag racing capability is as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

The rest of the "software" are just unimportant lollipops I can take or leave, personally.

The efficiency is a bit disappointing but has little influence on me, I have yet to have a range or significant charging problem.

OTOH I have never owned an unreliable car in my life so if my Taycan had problems it would really piss me off.

 

[daveo4EV]

One of my mates is a senior guy at Lucid. He is smart and tenacious and knows about driving dynamics, so I don't doubt it.

They probably won't be available here in my lifetime and I'd need to get one on a consultation basis anyway - too expensive for me to actually buy.

I am happy with the Porsche software important to me (so far) - brake feel, ride/handling compromise, PDCC, rear wheel steer and torque vectoring work well. My CT4S has enough power fo these roads since we have no straight roads with multiple lanes and traffic lights drag racing capability is as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

The rest of the "software" are just unimportant lollipops I can take or leave, personally.

The efficiency is a bit disappointing but has little influence on me, I have yet to have a range or significant charging problem.

OTOH I have never owned an unreliable car in my life so if my Taycan had problems it would really piss me off.

I agree with you on the range - when I owned my Taycan it was only rarely that it's range affected me - so we're good…

but with Lucid's efficiency I'm really confused as to why they are "going for range" - from a driving dynamic's point of view if they were to offer a 260-280 mile vehicle (vs. the 400-450+ they are currently offering) - picture the weight savings they could offer on the battery vs. the competitors and given their equal or slightly superior driving dynamics if they dropped the weight with slightly less (But still more than adequate) range their product could be even more compelling to those that care…

we all know the only problem with EV's is battery weight - and we get getting teased that battery weight will come down in the future…

once EV's are more powerful and lighter than ICE competitors their "pig like" status can be removed and compete with ICE's on the merits of the design…

I still think VW/Audi/Porsche have problems on their hands…vs. what is happening around them and they seem a bit out of their depth to respond…but that's just my perspective.

their legacy advantages are just not panning out - and their historical advantages are being rapidly lost…

again we'll see how this pans out…but it's not looking good for our hero…IMHO.

 

[A.Mayor]

because it didn't have to go this way…and it will be a pity if we lose Porsche as a contributing force to the industry…but apparently they are going to do what they are going to do…just a pity when I see people/institutions fail to avoid foreseeable outcomes…but it's the way of things.

I love my 911's they will be the last to be replaced with another brand.

I get your sentiment. Allay and relativize those fears. You’re clearly passionate about Porsche, and it’s not going anywhere anytime soon. But a 360° complaint siege isn’t the best way to show your love and worry for the brand.

 

[snstevens]

As new EVs come on the market it makes sense to give them a look. However, after owning my Taycan 4s for almost 4 years, I’ve come to these conclusions about what is most important to me —

• I want the following items in terms of driving experience.
  • Excellent acceleration and torque.
  • Exceptional handling and driving dynamics (stability on straights and curves), and multiple drive modes and suspension options.
  • Essential driver assist features (Lane Keeping, ACC with auto-stopping/accelerating). I’m not interested in FSD.
  • While not a deal breaker, I love location-based suspension height adjustment.
  • A round steering wheel (right?) and physical buttons and controls where they make sense (I don’t want to actively drive through a touch screen).
• Great looks and excellent exterior/interior fit and finish.
• Manufacturer stability (they’re not so new to the auto business that they might go out of business before my lease is up ).
• ”Good enough” software to control the car systems, navigation, charging, etc. reliably.
• Apple CarPlay integration
• Dealer support nearby with loaner car availability with a 1-2 week window.
• Reasonable trade-in value.

To be honest, my 4s continues to check all of these boxes. Yes I’ve had the heater failure, but other than that this has been an exceptional car to own.

I’ll continue to look at other options as they become available, but I’m more optimistic about the future of the Porsche brand than some, and at the end of day I love how this car drives and looks.

 

[daveo4EV]

worth the time if you care - no one at VW/Audi/Porsche talks like this - not sure Lucid will survive, but they get it - this is the sort of thinking that brought us the Model S - and no one at Tesla thinks like this anymore - and certainly no one at Porsche

efficiency matters - greatlly…

I've always said hte range of Taycan disappoints me - not because of hte actual number - but because the Taycan's relative lack of efficiency shows/demonstrates a lack of engagement on the the "core" issue - it's a bell weather of EV excellence - and Taycan has always lacked this bell weather…

again we'll see how this plays out.

 

[snstevens]

worth the time if you care - no one at VW/Audi/Porsche talks like this - not sure Lucid will survive, but they get it - this is the sort of thinking that brought us the Model S - and no one at Tesla thinks like this anymore - and certainly no one at Porsche

efficiency matters - greatlly…

I've always said hte range of Taycan disappoints me - not because of hte actual number - but because the Taycan's relative lack of efficiency shows/demonstrates a lack of engagement on the the "core" issue - it's a bell weather of EV excellence - and Taycan has always lacked this bell weather…

again we'll see how this plays out.

You’ve made me curious Dave and I’ll certainly give the Lucid a drive sometime. It’ll probably be after the holidays though. ?

 

[daveo4EV]

You’ve made me curious Dave and I’ll certainly give the Lucid a drive sometime. It’ll probably be after the holidays though. ?

the air not so much - Lucid air Saphire…is the benchmark - the Gravity is a Saphire drive train and dynamics (i.e. very very good and best Ev drive train in a production vehicle today) - and the volume/cargo/passenger capacity of a chevy suburban…and I need to replcae my Cayenne turboS eHybrid in 2027…

 

[Vercingetorix]

I am very curious why the Lucid Saphire has not set a Nurburgring time.

 

[daveo4EV]

I am very curious why the Lucid Saphire has not set a Nurburgring time.

neither has the new 992.2 GT3 or the Macan Turbo…

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/09/how-quick-can-the-lucid-air-sapphire-lap-the-ring/

we'll see it soon enough - it has the track chops - again this is the Lucid Saphire, not the original Lucid Air…

 

[Vercingetorix]

neither has the new 992.2 GT3 or the Macan Turbo…

Sapphire is not new.

 

[Vercingetorix]

The Lucid Air has been out since 2021.

 

[daveo4EV]

The Lucid Air has been out since 2021.

Saphire Air is a 2023/2024 product and the first product from Lucid to attempt driving dynamics and track worthy ness…

 

[daveo4EV]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a46594739/2024-lucid-air-sapphire-lightning-lap-2024/

The Sapphire shattered the Lightning Lap EV record by nearly 11 seconds and became the fastest four-door, edging out the Porsche Panamera Turbo S by 3.5 seconds. What about the Tesla Model S Plaid? We've yet to test one with the Track package, but a pro driver ran a 2:50.7 in a Plaid at one of our track days. Nothing quicker can seat five adults in comfort, and only one even has a back seat at all. Everything faster, with the exception of the 2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S, wore track-ready R-compound tires. On the all-time leaderboard, the Air Sapphire nestles in between the 2016 Dodge Viper ACR and the 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500. Wow!