Please help! Let’s imagine the new Macan EV comes out in 2 versions...

[feye]

the EL7 is quite comfy with the electric tilted foot leg rest on the passenger side, but agree with most of your verdicts on NIO, and that makes me (IF i need to)only go for a subscription model, it's carefree and I can swap a fully charged battery in 5 mins, the best thing is I don't physically own the car which means I can get rid of it anytime I want.

Never sat in a NIO ET7.

Is NIO selling in Holland? Is the price competitive?

Don't like the battery renting swapping idea. If you buy new and swap it out for a battery with less than 90% SoH, you suddenly have 10% less range? It's just not appealing. Having said that, Porsche needs over 4 months to fix a battery over here, is simply outrageous! Would be great, if they could easily swap a spare one in, until mine is fixed.

 

[nickmdp]

I'd do 600 miles of range 100%. It's not that I plan to drive 600 miles non-stop, it's that I want far more control over where I stop and for how long. With the Taycan, by the time I've driven for a couple hours, I need to be getting ready to stop for 30 minutes , and if that charger is busy or otherwise has an issue, I might have very limited options.

600 miles means that if I just need a bathroom break after a couple hours of driving, I can check for a convenient DCFC, and if it doesn't exist, I can just stop at an interstate rest stop and be on my way again in less time than it would take to get off at an exit, find a charger and get it charging. I can plan a road trip around a couple dependable DCFCs rather than worrying about potentially a dozen or so.

Taking this trip for example: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/2-500-miles-in-8-days-in-taycan-gts.12303/

That was a 4 day trip that I could have easily simplified to 6 charges with 3 being at destinations, and could probably have done nothing but destination charging if I really wanted to stretch it. The sad part is that I would still spend more time planning such a trip with an EV than an ICE. I'm not disappointed with my choice, but as someone that love road trips, the more time I can spend planning the fun parts of my trip instead of the charging stops, the better. To some degree that might be made easy by Tesla opening up their network, but we're not quite there yet.

 

[feye]

I'd do 600 miles of range 100%. It's not that I plan to drive 600 miles non-stop, it's that I want far more control over where I stop and for how long. With the Taycan, by the time I've driven for a couple hours, I need to be getting ready to stop for 30 minutes , and if that charger is busy or otherwise has an issue, I might have very limited options.

600 miles means that if I just need a bathroom break after a couple hours of driving, I can check for a convenient DCFC, and if it doesn't exist, I can just stop at an interstate rest stop and be on my way again in less time than it would take to get off at an exit, find a charger and get it charging. I can plan a road trip around a couple dependable DCFCs rather than worrying about potentially a dozen or so.

Taking this trip for example: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/2-500-miles-in-8-days-in-taycan-gts.12303/

That was a 4 day trip that I could have easily simplified to 6 charges with 3 being at destinations, and could probably have done nothing but destination charging if I really wanted to stretch it. The sad part is that I would still spend more time planning such a trip with an EV than an ICE. I'm not disappointed with my choice, but as someone that love road trips, the more time I can spend planning the fun parts of my trip instead of the charging stops, the better. To some degree that might be made easy by Tesla opening up their network, but we're not quite there yet.

Exactly my thinking. With that range you go on trips, and you don't worry anymore where to charge and how to plan it, you just stick it when it's convenient.

Also the big battery can add over 200km range in 5 min with 800V. Heading out now, lets see what we buy!

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

If the German car manufacturers will not overcome their fear of canabilising their ICE stinkers, by making their EVs more powerful, they will loose out to the competition in the long run.

Um, that (fear) is not the issue. On both sides of the Atlantic, manufacturers are measured at fleet level for emissions, and so every “stinker” - especially fast ones - require more EV sales to offset. They can’t go full EV, though, because the infrastructure is not there, the audience has probably hit a plateau (or at least a lull), and the cost of materials is spiraling. The upper-range EVs are pure profit, and they would smoke any would-be ICE counterparts, so that’s not it.

Having said that, Porsche have stated repeatedly they’re on path to be 60%+ BEV-only by (some near future year).

 

[DGW]

Never sat in a NIO ET7.

Is NIO selling in Holland? Is the price competitive?

Don't like the battery renting swapping idea. If you buy new and swap it out for a battery with less than 90% SoH, you suddenly have 10% less range? It's just not appealing. Having said that, Porsche needs over 4 months to fix a battery over here, is simply outrageous! Would be great, if they could easily swap a spare one in, until mine is fixed.

Yes, i believed they began to deliver the ELT7 last year already and have 4 swap stations across the country, the nearest one is 10mins drive from my place. The EL7 is pretty fast in Sport+ model but i felt unsafe pushing further. nth beats the Taycan at the moment when comes to performance and handling.
The ET5 starts at 50k and ELT7 at 76k euros with all options, but that's not cheap as we'd thought. If you decide the "purchase" the car with the battery pack 75kwh or 100kwh, you then can not swap the battery, however you can purchase the car without the battery, pay a monthly fee for the battery, then you can upgrade/downgrade and swap anytime you want, incase your have HV battery pack is dead, you just go and swap for a new or working one in 5 mins. That's the only selling point appealing to me.
as I said the only reason you would want to have a NIO is the subscription model (full operational lease) at 1500euros a month for all-in services.

back to what matters which is the Macan, I would go for the slower and longer range model for long-distance road trips, and I don't have to 1: guess all chargers are working upon arrival (apps like ABRP sometime don't have the real-time update) 2: stop multiple times for charging only. 3: plan everything ahead since the PIRM is useless. that said, I'd probably order one when the real-world range is above 600km in the winter and 700km in the summer, and it's a Porsche and it will be fast

 

[feye]

Yes, i believed they began to deliver the ELT7 last year already and have 4 swap stations across the country, the nearest one is 10mins drive from my place. The EL7 is pretty fast in Sport+ model but i felt unsafe pushing further. nth beats the Taycan at the moment when comes to performance and handling.
The ET5 starts at 50k and ELT7 at 76k euros with all options, but that's not cheap as we'd thought. If you decide the "purchase" the car with the battery pack 75kwh or 100kwh, you then can not swap the battery, however you can purchase the car without the battery, pay a monthly fee for the battery, then you can upgrade/downgrade and swap anytime you want, incase your have HV battery pack is dead, you just go and swap for a new or working one in 5 mins. That's the only selling point appealing to me.
as I said the only reason you would want to have a NIO is the subscription model (full operational lease) at 1500euros a month for all-in services.

I see. For my purpose the swapping and monthly costs make no sense. Buying it is simply too expensive. The car inside is too naked, not worth it in my opinion.

 

[feye]

Um, that (fear) is not the issue. On both sides of the Atlantic, manufacturers are measured at fleet level for emissions, and so every “stinker” - especially fast ones - require more EV sales to offset. They can’t go full EV, though, because the infrastructure is not there, the audience has probably hit a plateau (or at least a lull), and the cost of materials is spiraling. The upper-range EVs are pure profit, and they would smoke any would-be ICE counterparts, so that’s not it.

Having said that, Porsche have stated repeatedly they’re on path to be 60%+ BEV-only by (some near future year).

So basically, they are still not competing, just producing to make the regulators happy. In certain parts the infrastructure is ok, but then:

A few weeks ago, I was in Germany with a BMW iX. Battery only 77kWh, way to small. When arriving at the hotel, basement parking 16 Euros a night. I asked if I can charge the car, he said, yes, they have 4 chargers:


Needless to say, that I did not pay and parked the car outside on the curb for free...

 

[f1eng]

It obviously depends on use.

Firstly I have had my Taycan 6 months and haven't done many long trips yet but I have only charged away from home on 2 journeys, every other trip has been short enough to just plug in when I get home.

Secondly straight line accelleration is a minority interest to me, the roads around here are not straight, so good handling, ride and roadholding are hugely more important than 0-60mph and I suppose I have to drive the car to decide that.

So neither option is a stand out choice for me, it would depend which controls felt nicest and handling. Almost certainly the lightest.

 

[whitex]

If I could get a Taycan with 2x the range vs. Taycan half the weight with current range (and probably much cheaper), I'd go with the latter. I don't need more range but would like better handling of a lighter car. It might also leave weight and cost budget for tri or quad motor setup and more power. ~230 miles on 100% SoC seems to be a good sweet spot for me, both on daily driving and trips. Anyone who prefers range over performance, Lucid Air Grand Touring - 516 miles or rated range, fast charging curve too - great mile muncher for long trips, decent power for straight line acceleration too.

 

[feye]

It obviously depends on use.

Firstly I have had my Taycan 6 months and haven't done many long trips yet but I have only charged away from home on 2 journeys, every other trip has been short enough to just plug in when I get home.

Secondly straight line accelleration is a minority interest to me, the roads around here are not straight, so good handling, ride and roadholding are hugely more important than 0-60mph and I suppose I have to drive the car to decide that.

So neither option is a stand out choice for me, it would depend which controls felt nicest and handling. Almost certainly the lightest.

I agree for your use case, a heavy battery makes not much sense.

Here it's different now, since recently we travel a lot for golf tournaments. Today was the first time, I took our new Zeekr 001 with 140 kWh Battery. The range is a monster!

Left with 100% charge. Outside temp 30 °C with some rain on the way. Arrived with 75% SoC left. Drove 200 km /124 mi with average speed of 106 km/h.

The AC with seat cooling was running and took 0.7 kWh. Real world driving with 120km/h on highway gives me 750 km / 465 mi range.

This is the first time I drove an EV longer distance, and don't have to think at all about charging. It is a whole new EV driving experience, because I cannot imagine every to drive long distance and charge more than once, most likely never...

 

[feye]

If I could get a Taycan with 2x the range vs. Taycan half the weight with current range (and probably much cheaper), I'd go with the latter. I don't need more range but would like better handling of a lighter car. It might also leave weight and cost budget for tri or quad motor setup and more power. ~230 miles on 100% SoC seems to be a good sweet spot for me, both on daily driving and trips. Anyone who prefers range over performance, Lucid Air Grand Touring - 516 miles or rated range, fast charging curve too - great mile muncher for long trips, decent power for straight line acceleration too.

See my post above. Stopping on trips for charging, when you don't need to otherwise is annoying. Been there too often! I really like my Taycan, and would be happy if it even had a lighter battery, but not less capacity.

The new battery from CATL is really something. Happy to see the progress and hopefully more brands can offer cars with such range - since it is urgently needed!

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

See my post above. Stopping on trips for charging, when you don't need to otherwise is annoying. Been there too often!

This is, obviously, subjective but also changing. I used to detest stopping on long trips (the 6-7 hrs kind) because I was "losing time/progress". But I'd arrive tired, drained and glad to have arrived. It was even worse for cross-country trips (well, TX/CA/NV to WA). And then there was the Taycan trip, which forced me to stop frequently - this was by far the easiest long-distance trip, and the only difference was the breaks/opportunity to move, stretch, decompress and de-focus. ~900 mi in one day, and I wished it was longer.

The only time range is an issue for me now is going into areas without infrastructure, and that's only a matter of time.

 

[feye]

This is, obviously, subjective but also changing. I used to detest stopping on long trips (the 6-7 hrs kind) because I was "losing time/progress". But I'd arrive tired, drained and glad to have arrived. It was even worse for cross-country trips (well, TX/CA/NV to WA). And then there was the Taycan trip, which forced me to stop frequently - this was by far the easiest long-distance trip, and the only difference was the breaks/opportunity to move, stretch, decompress and de-focus. ~900 mi in one day, and I wished it was longer.

The only time range is an issue for me now is going into areas without infrastructure, and that's only a matter of time.

I agree with the stops, I also need them, unless there was an actual working self driving feature, which was smart and safe enough.

Left with 100% Soc on Thursday morning. Came back Sunday late afternoon with 11% SoC left. Never needed to think about charging. The car simply drives further then I could with my Audi A7 with a 75l gas tank. This clearly changes things in the EV space...

The weather here is very hot, up to 38°C (100°F), so the AC was used a lot, even a few times to precool the car without even driving. 700km range is real.

Also 128.7 kWh * 1.11 = 142.85 kWh. So maybe the 140 kWh are really available...