"Porsche EV Sales Plunge: CEO’s Bold Move to Save the Brand! Can The Push To Electric Cars Save Them?" - video

[ZenicaNC]

Would it be better without a battery recall every few months

I keep reading about these but so far, my VIN has bullet-dodged all of these recalls. I'm actually bummed about it, a battery replacement sounds like a good deal as it resets the battery % clock to zero. This is an assumption on my part, in that they replace the whole battery though if Porsche just replaces an individual cell, I'd be a whole lot less thrilled about that.

and an infotainment system faster than a 90 year old grandpa with Alzheimer? Yes, yes it would be better.

OMG yes. It has such lag, it's nuts how this made it past beta and into production. Like did no one let a 15 year old try it out for 5 seconds? My kids can't fathom how a NEW Porsche screen lags like this does. Forces them to be patient so maybe it is a good thing in disguise.

But looking at how the market progresses, it will likely be the next generation of BYD U9.

And definitively never again first generation EVs.

I'd absolutely NEVER buy or drive a vehicle wholly made by a chinese company. The level of "malware" the car would come preinstalled with, the spyware it probably would have reporting back to a foreign government, no thanks. Information is currency and that is one country that LOVES to gather information, on EVERYONE. Puts the CIA/NSA to shame.

There will be plenty of EV options as well as possibly a hydrogen option from Toyota, if not a few others but like you, for now, I'll keep my 155k $40k Taycan

 

[Bennachie]

Porsche History - Cayman S, Cayman S, Macan S, Taycan 4S (spot a pattern yet?) Macan by far the best for lack of depreciation. Taycsn not bomb proof but similar to the Caymans (Caymen?) BUT it was 'slightly used' with 3 figures on the odo..................

AND it is the best car of the lot................

 

[chun]

I keep reading about these but so far, my VIN has bullet-dodged all of these recalls. I'm actually bummed about it, a battery replacement sounds like a good deal as it resets the battery % clock to zero. This is an assumption on my part, in that they replace the whole battery though if Porsche just replaces an individual cell, I'd be a whole lot less thrilled about that.


OMG yes. It has such lag, it's nuts how this made it past beta and into production. Like did no one let a 15 year old try it out for 5 seconds? My kids can't fathom how a NEW Porsche screen lags like this does. Forces them to be patient so maybe it is a good thing in disguise.



I'd absolutely NEVER buy or drive a vehicle wholly made by a chinese company. The level of "malware" the car would come preinstalled with, the spyware it probably would have reporting back to a foreign government, no thanks. Information is currency and that is one country that LOVES to gather information, on EVERYONE. Puts the CIA/NSA to shame.

There will be plenty of EV options as well as possibly a hydrogen option from Toyota, if not a few others but like you, for now, I'll keep my 155k $40k Taycan

1. They absolutely do not replace the whole battery. Just defective modules. I am already on my 2nd case of this.

2. All chinese cars that make it to European market go through very rigorous testing, same as german cars. I am not worried about any malware or whatever Need I remind you, most of the parts in your taycan are made in china, and assembled in germany. Your whole iphone is made in china, and likely many of your other electronic devices. I really wouldn't worry to much; devices like these go though very strict testing, and if something bad is found, the repercussions are massive, look at Huawei. No company will take the risk.

 

[ZenicaNC]

1. They absolutely do not replace the whole battery. Just defective modules. I am already on my 2nd case of this.

2. All chinese cars that make it to European market go through very rigorous testing, same as german cars. I am not worried about any malware or whatever Need I remind you, most of the parts in your taycan are made in china, and assembled in germany. Your whole iphone is made in china, and likely many of your other electronic devices. I really wouldn't worry to much; devices like these go though very strict testing, and if something bad is found, the repercussions are massive, look at Huawei. No company will take the risk.

I wonder what the effect is on the battery as a whole when a 3 yr old battery has x% of cells replaced with new one. Ever read an instruction manual for a consumer product, the battery section almost always says "Don't mix new and used batteries" in addition to not mixing battery types, though that isn't a concern here.

True, but my iPhone is manufactured by a US company. Porsche is a German company.
100% of my other consumer goods manufactured in china are either a US or EU or Israeli company, not a one is a chinese company. The difference being on oversight. I can have a modicum of belief in the EU/US company testing the device and checking it for malware/spyware. I seem to recall a few years back a device, possibly a cell phone or something similar, was found to have exactly that, chinese spyware installed. In that case, it was a 3rd party security company that found it, not even the manufacturer. In a product where they control everything and are only beholden to "government" oversight, I absolutely have no trust in them not planting spyware.

I think your idea of risk is different than the powers that be in china. They hold the cards, perhapos not all but certainly a winning hand and they know it. What would happen if their cars were found to be tracking owners, sending owner data back to the chinese government? What would really be the consequence of that? A fine? Please. That data is worth more to them than any fine levied.

I'm not looking to convince you not to by a chinese car but I wouldn't be naive and think it isn't going to be delivered with software and hardware that sends "diagnostic" data back to china.

 

[chun]

True, but my iPhone is manufactured by a US company

100% false Your iphone is DESIGNED by a US company; and manufactured 100% in China or India, depending on model.

 

[chun]

I think your idea of risk is different than the powers that be in china. They hold the cards, perhapos not all but certainly a winning hand and they know it. What would happen if their cars were found to be tracking owners, sending owner data back to the chinese government? What would really be the consequence of that? A fine? Please. That data is worth more to them than any fine levied.

Again, look at Huawei. The consequence is being banned from the global market. Huawei is not selling products in EU & US anymore.

 

[chun]

I'm not looking to convince you not to by a chinese car but I wouldn't be naive and think it isn't going to be delivered with software and hardware that sends "diagnostic" data back to china.

By EU law, all data must be stored and preserved in European or US data centers.
Again, all of these cars would go through EU insepctions, like all cars. And all of them would abide by EU regulations, like all cars, and all devices sold in EU

 

[ZenicaNC]

By EU law, all data must be stored and preserved in European or US data centers.
Again, all of these cars would go through EU insepctions, like all cars. And all of them would abide by EU regulations, like all cars, and all devices sold in EU

We have differing opinions on this. I do believe they will skirt the rules and laws of the countries they import into. I do believe they will test how much they can get away with if they even think it will be detected. I also think they would litigate the matter citing they need said data to maintain the vehicles integrity, safety or conveniences. I don't for one moment think china will let an opportunity for a goldmine of data on all the vehicles sold go untapped. It's like suggesting the CIA wouldn't wire tap everyone or that software companies developing AI would pass on the opportunity to use your personal emails for machine learning (since they are running out of material to feed them).

100% false Your iphone is DESIGNED by a US company; and manufactured 100% in China or India, depending on model.

I meant Apple is a US company, the product they manufacturer overseas is made of foreign components but remains US product, not of domestic manufacture.

 

[A.Mayor]

We have differing opinions on this. I do believe they will skirt the rules and laws of the countries they import into. I do believe they will test how much they can get away with if they even think it will be detected. I also think they would litigate the matter citing they need said data to maintain the vehicles integrity, safety or conveniences. I don't for one moment think china will let an opportunity for a goldmine of data on all the vehicles sold go untapped. It's like suggesting the CIA wouldn't wire tap everyone or that software companies developing AI would pass on the opportunity to use your personal emails for machine learning (since they are running out of material to feed them).



I meant Apple is a US company, the product they manufacturer overseas is made of foreign components but remains US product, not of domestic manufacture.

Your posts about Chinese manufacturers seem overly simplistic and frantic.

Remember, the biggest “danger” isn’t always external forces or competitors. The real threats often come from closer to home — like one’s own government, institutions, and or beloved companies/brands.

It’s usually not the outside enemy that gets one, but the one one trusts the most.

 

[ZenicaNC]

Your posts about Chinese manufacturers seem overly simplistic and frantic.

Simplified? Yes, because I see the threat as a simple one. It is no secret the chinese government gathers and stores an immense amount of data on its own citizens and anyone else it can.

My wife works for an international firm headquartered in the UK. They have a standing policy to backup and wipe all work phones when traveling to china or HK. They also suggest leaving personal devices at home. The one time she went, she came back and told me they did something with her work phone that appeared to be copying it.

Remember, the biggest “danger” isn’t always external forces or competitors. The real threats often come from closer to home — like one’s own government, trusted institutions, and or beloved companies/brands.

It’s usually not the outside enemy that gets one, but the one one trusts the most.

That is a much broader conversation for another time/place but suffice it to say, I never said nor implied I trust my own countries government and certainly not after January. Anecdotally, years ago we had a Buick with OnStar. After delving into their terms and conditions I found they sell my data, like where the car is principally parked, locations entered into the NAV system and other data like speed and fuel efficiency. They do this even if I discontinue the service. I ended up finding the OnStar computer and disconnecting it.

As Ronald Reagan loved to misquote a Russian proverb, Trust But Verify.

 

[Jonathan S.]

^ I loved that quote at the time! And ever since then. I had a colleague who loved to chuck it and then chuckle about how when you really think about it, the meaning boils down to, Nope, don't trust!

As for the debate about xenophobia and tinfoil hats -- or whatever it is we're debating here -- the one thing that I think everyone can agree on is that China is setting some sort of all-time world records for industrial espionage and lack for respect for intellectual property. (I'm not saying what the policy conclusion should be from that, but China really is different in that regard.)

 

[A.Mayor]

Simplified? Yes, because I see the threat as a simple one. It is no secret the chinese government gathers and stores an immense amount of data on its own citizens and anyone else it can.

Let’s agree that every entity collects as much data as they can, and all that data is at risk of being misused.

That the Chinese government has easy or direct access to this data should not be a material concern for most.

My wife works for an international firm headquartered in the UK. They have a standing policy to backup and wipe all work phones when traveling to china or HK. They also suggest leaving personal devices at home. The one time she went, she came back and told me they did something with her work phone that appeared to be copying it.

These kinds of policies are pretty standard for “listed” high-risk countries, not just China or Hong Kong. It’s more about a person’s job and how sensitive their work is, and sometimes just for personal protection.

 

[ZenicaNC]

Let’s agree that every entity collects as much data as they can, and all that data is at risk of being misused.

Agreed.

That the Chinese government has easy or direct access to this data should not be a material concern for most.

"Should not"? Well for me, it is a paramount concern. I would take every simple step to deny a government and company any opportunity to gather data. Choosing not to buy one of their cars is a passive and simple way to thwart one means of data collection.

These kinds of policies are pretty standard for “listed” high-risk countries, not just China or Hong Kong. It’s more about a person’s job and how sensitive their work is, and sometimes just for personal protection.

I suppose that is true. What would be some other high risk countries? iran perhaps? Maybe nk?
Oh, let us not forget russia. See a similarity?

There are plenty of EV options that ignoring a chinese EV is no skin off my back. Luckily I'm not so budget constrained that I'd be forced to entertain a chinese car and even if I were budge constrained, I'd just not entertain an EV at which point, there are a plethora of budget friendly new Japanese and domestic ICE vehicles and even more price-attractive CPO ICE vehicles.

Heck, I wouldn't drive a chinese car for free. I doubt I'd even take a ride in one as a ride-share/taxi.

We each have our own set of personal rules/values and live by them.

On the topic at hand, for anyone that had individual cells replaced, did your dealer or Porsche go into detail with you about the process? I am by no means a battery expert but I do use them in the course of my work so on occasion, I have to research which will be best suited given my application. I've read many times that mixing old and new cells is not ideal but can be managed with management software that adjusts for the differences in battery resistances.

Does the Taycan (or any/all EVs) inherently have this built in to account for how cells will age differently and replacing old cells with new ones is resolved using the same software?

@chun,

You've had multiple cells replaced, did the dealer ever have to replace a cell that was previously replaced or each time it was original cells that were replaced?

 

[A.Mayor]

I suppose that is true. What would be some other high risk countries? iran perhaps? Maybe nk?
Oh, let us not forget russia. See a similarity?

I don’t see much similarity beyond countries with differing values and strong will. However, countries like Türkiye, Hungary, Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia, Pakistan, Venezuela, Argentina, Cuba, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, India, even Mexico* and many others, depending on the sensitivity of the work, have all been considered “high-risk” at one time or another. What is deemed high-risk is relative and depends on many factors at play.

*Mostly in certain commercial contexts.

At the end of the day, the level of concern is entirely up to you — what might feel unnecessary to me could feel essential to you or someone else.

That said, I respect anyone’s personal rules and values, as long as they don’t rely too much on over generalizations or turn into blanket rules for everyone.

But let’s not derail this thread any further, even though I’ve enjoyed the exchange!

 

[chun]

@chun,

You've had multiple cells replaced, did the dealer ever have to replace a cell that was previously replaced or each time it was original cells that were replaced?

Hasn't been the case for me; but it has been the case for others on the forum. I have also read from one of the people here, that following their battery getting cells replaced, when the battery failed again, they decided to just give him a refurbished battery (battery from a different taycan, that had cells replaced). So that can also happen.

But if we believe 3rd party mechanics, from the other forum, complete battery failure is inevitable at some point, as the battery enclosure is badly designed, and humidity makes its way in. According to them, 99% of red circles battery errors are results of humidity in the enclosure.

To add to that concern, opening up the the enclosure to replace cells on the battery, is bound to create wear and tear, resulting higher chance of condense in the battery enclosure; even though Porsche says it's not the case - only to be contradicted by the CEO to Chinese media, where he admitted the battery can "in certain scenarios" fail due to condense / humidity in the enclosure.