interesting contrast…Lucid air inventory "deals"

[daveo4EV]

I'm under the impression in North America you still have to wait to get a Taycan and sales are good…

but apparently they are not so much for Lucid (which is a car I simply don't understand or desire)

they are having a sale - 1% financing if you'll purchase an inventory model…

https://www.lucidmotors.com/stories/lucid-air-lease-loan-offers

even looking at the leases I wouldn't consider the Lucid - I don't like the styling and I don't think it's a quality product.

wow 1% loans in this environment reeks of desperation

if there was no Taycan I'd go back to a Model S before being forced to drive a Lucid Air.

 

[RingoDingo]

There's a bunch of Taycans for sale at my local dealer - and the used inventory is increasing, so I sense demand is softening. But Lucid is in rough shape.

There was a barely used 583-mile 2022 Lucid Air Grand Touring on BAT recently that MSRP'd for $160k and sold for $100k. That's a big hit and tells you where demand is at.

 

[fullmetalbaal]

I think demand is softening substantially across the board.

You can pick up a Rivian off the lot / within 1 week if you're willing to go with existing inventory.
Both Lucid and Mercedes have some really good deals on financing, and Mercedes also gives you straight xxK off MSRP deals.
Porsche Bellevue seems to have over a dozen Taycan in inventory. There's also a longer list of used Taycan available in the area.

Tesla is also giving some nice incentives, though its hard to tease apart their usual end of quarter sweeteners from anything else.

This sounds negative, but I mean this in a positive way!
It's turning into a buyer's market - let's go hunting!

 

[Mr. 2021 Taycan]

A review of cars.com shows the used price of a 2021 4S with low mileage and comparable options to mine indicates about 30% depreciation from 2021 list pricing. Not very comforting.

 

[MConte05]

Yep, I lost 27% on my 2021 CT4. $115k MSRP, traded into a Porsche dealer for $85k against a new GTS ST. However all the online retailers were offering $75k for the car, so an almost 35% depreciation. Really any high end executive car or EV is getting hammered.

 

[Archimedes]

A review of cars.com shows the used price of a 2021 4S with low mileage and comparable options to mine indicates about 30% depreciation from 2021 list pricing. Not very comforting.

Totally normal save for the past few years. 10-15% loss on drive off, then 5-10% per year during the first few years. Pretty standard auto depreciation curve.

 

[Archimedes]

Yep, I lost 27% on my 2021 CT4. $115k MSRP, traded into a Porsche dealer for $85k against a new GTS ST. However all the online retailers were offering $75k for the car, so an almost 35% depreciation. Really any high end executive car or EV is getting hammered.

But that’s a flawed ‘depreciation’ calculation, because you’re using wholesale trade in price. The retail price is what matters, and that’s 10-15 percent above wholesale. A dealer will sell your car for $90-95k. So the depreciation was about 20 percent. Pretty standard for luxury autos in normal times.

 

[MConte05]

But that’s a flawed ‘depreciation’ calculation, because you’re using wholesale trade in price. The retail price is what matters, and that’s 10-15 percent above wholesale. A dealer will sell your car for $90-95k. So the depreciation was about 20 percent. Pretty standard for luxury autos in normal times.

Why is that flawed? Private party rarely sells for the retail price without a lot of effort and time, particularly on cars like these.

The vast majority of people buy retail price and sell wholesale price, so to them the depriciation of the asset is the money lost over that time frame.

 

[daveo4EV]

Why is that flawed? Private party rarely sells for the retail price without a lot of effort and time, particularly on cars like these.

The vast majority of people buy retail price and sell wholesale price, so to them the depriciation of the asset is the money lost over that time frame.

you don't have to trade the vehicle - you can get closer to the dealer sale price by selling private party yourself - but that's a PITA…so it's your call type of thing. Lose some money but don't deal with the sale yourself.

 

[MConte05]

you don't have to trade the vehicle - you can get closer to the dealer sale price by selling private party yourself - but that's a PITA…so it's your call type of thing. Lose some money but don't deal with the sale yourself.

Right, but out of 666 used Taycans listed for sale on cars.com at the moment, only 13 of those are private party.

so 1.8% of the people there can use that “not flawed” depreciation approach I guess. But for the 98.2% of other people, deprecation will be the purchase price minus the trade in price. Simple as that.

can’t forget tax trade in benefits too for different states.

 

[BJCanadaMax]

My only real concern is. Today, if you buy/drive a Taycan, people would assume that it's used car. Soon the Cross Turismo will join that train. Sad. Yeah, i am vain. But most buyers of this car are vain.

 

[Deleted member 6348]

I have yet to see a Lucid charge with any urgency in the real world. It would appear that the cars they provided to journalists are ringers, because every journalist claims extremely high charging rates. Owners complain about the slow speed when I run into them at EV chargers. A few months ago, I ran into a Lucid owner frustrated that they couldn’t charge at any of the chargers at an EA location, despite those chargers working for other cars.

Lucid has received raves from journalists, but again, in the real world, I just don’t see it. Every one that I have seen looks janky from the build quality perspective.

Tesla grew its market share through a radical fan base. Lucid is basically run by Tesla alumni, but this product does not engender the same level of enthusiasm.

I have seen enough that I would not touch one at any price, at any discount. The only upstart EV maker with any credibility is Rivian. They have proven themselves and have sold a ton of trucks and SUVs.

 

[Mr. 2021 Taycan]

Totally normal save for the past few years. 10-15% loss on drive off, then 5-10% per year during the first few years. Pretty standard auto depreciation curve.

Understood and was expected. Just reporting. I wanted the Taycan without regard to depreciation.

 

[whan]

Agree that we are reverting back to more of a normal environment where luxury sedans depreciate a ton.

That said, it is interesting to see lucid’s struggles relative to the competition, given the rave reviews from journalists. That example from BAT of a $150k+ MSRP 2022 car with <1k miles selling for $100k ($105k after fees) is pretty shocking. Particularly in comparison to how well rivian seems to be doing, relatively speaking as a comoparable startup

I wonder if it’s because the luxury sedan EV segment at this point has a ton of players to choose from, and the buyers are more hesitant to take a gamble on a startup with reported growing pains in quality? IE the types of buyers for $100k+ luxury sedans would rather buy from an established marque if they can help it.

Rivian is in a fortunate position of having been the first to market with an EV truck. And there really are mostly only 2 players at the moment (lightning and R1T, hummer is more of a specialty vehicle). Lightning is also larger and more traditional, so the R1T provides a unique package that isn’t available at other manufacturers. While Lucid has very direct competition with the Model S, Taycan, E tron GT, EQS, BMW i7

 

[RingoDingo]

I have yet to see a Lucid charge with any urgency in the real world. It would appear that the cars they provided to journalists are ringers, because every journalist claims extremely high charging rates. Owners complain about the slow speed when I run into them at EV chargers. A few months ago, I ran into a Lucid owner frustrated that they couldn’t charge at any of the chargers at an EA location, despite those chargers working for other cars.

Lucid has received raves from journalists, but again, in the real world, I just don’t see it. Every one that I have seen looks janky from the build quality perspective.

Tesla grew its market share through a radical fan base. Lucid is basically run by Tesla alumni, but this product does not engender the same level of enthusiasm.

I have seen enough that I would not touch one at any price, at any discount. The only upstart EV maker with any credibility is Rivian. They have proven themselves and have sold a ton of trucks and SUVs.

Tesla had many, many benefits, but among them were first mover status, the novelty of offering something nobody else could (ie, a status EV that didn't suck) and really solid technology that you couldn't get elsewhere. What does Lucid offer that you can't get elsewhere that is compelling enough to overcome the risk of buying a car attached to a start-up that might not make it? Rivian, I think, is unique and compelling enough to overcome that stigma... but Lucid, I don't see it.