daveo4EV
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- David
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TLDR; EV's (yes even the Cayenne EV) don't have enough stamina on track to warrant PCCB's - and for non-track use 98% percent of deceleration is handled by regen in normal driving (Porsche's words not mine)…
this makes PCCB's a huge cosmetic exercise vs. an actual stopping the vehicle exercise
go in "eye's open" and get them if you want - but let's not pretend on a full-Regen EV you're changing anything about how it stops…
here are historical postings on this topic which has been debated for years…
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-9y0-2019/1422517-cayenne-ceramic-brakes.html#post19563490
Ceramic Brakes have the following superpowers:
PCCB's have the following downsides:
stopping distance is largely governed by tire-grip levels and road conditions - and there is no statistically significant advantage in terms of expected stopping distance for PCCB's vs. Steel Brakes in non-brake-fade conditions and equivilent tires - tire grip and ABS governs your maximum deceleration (unless your brakes "suck" or are in "fade") - so for the same tires and same road surface stoping distance is the same for steel and PCCB's…
They are a great choice - but all Porsche brakes are excellent and all brakes for all vehicle's pass the following "tourture" test from Porsche as part of vehicle development…see the relevant passage from Porsche regarding the testing they do for _ALL_ brake systems on _ALL_ Porsche vehicle's…
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a28915025/porsche-taycan-huge-brakes/
I love my PCCB's - but I can speak from experience that their most significant benefit is their outstanding fade-resistance - and I can also speak from experience that brake fade is _NOT_ an issue for virtually any Porsche brake system off-track, but I can get Porsche's steel brakes on my GT3 to fade after about 25 minutes on track at Laguna Seca - but that sort of usage is hard to imagine in any street driving scenarios.
this topic has been covered a lot - there is no definitive "conclusion" - but if you're taking sides - my position:
it is however 100% crystal clear the absolute cheapest opportunity to get PCCB's is with a factory order - adding them later is super expensive and mostly impractical.
and I must say regardless of any meaningful advantage in normal use - there is no question they are best brakes money can buy - and they are excellent with few if any downsides other than cost - but as to if they are "better" in meaningful way for a street car - that's less clear.
my $0.02
this makes PCCB's a huge cosmetic exercise vs. an actual stopping the vehicle exercise
go in "eye's open" and get them if you want - but let's not pretend on a full-Regen EV you're changing anything about how it stops…
here are historical postings on this topic which has been debated for years…
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-9y0-2019/1422517-cayenne-ceramic-brakes.html#post19563490
Ceramic Brakes have the following superpowers:
- thermal endurance - no brake fade - although outside of track use it's hard to imagine _ANY_ non-track scenario where that will matter
- less brake dust - if you're OCD about your wheels and dust and cleaning them - PCCB's are for you
- lower weight - and since brake are a rotational mass element this has great effect on vehicle dynamics - although on a 5000+ lbs vehicle one could argue it may not matter
- they look "better" - but I'm not sure if this is objectively true or a conditioned response from Porsche (and the auto-industry at large) marketing them this way
- no rust on the rotor in winter areas with salts on the road and such
PCCB's have the following downsides:
- limited choices for pad replacement materials
- _IF_ you have to replace the rotors they are wicked expensive - truly spectacularly expensive - no joke - like could be a $30k brake job if you have to do all four rotors
- for non-track use it's very plausible that rotors are "lifetime" because PCCB's only "wear" if you get them super super hot - and it's hard to imagine non-Track scenarios where this will happen
- but _IF_ you have to replace rotors you can buy 4 rotors _OR_ an entire Honda Accord just in parts cost
- some people don't like the modulation or pedal feel of PCCB's and the pad material vs. the range of options for steel brakes
stopping distance is largely governed by tire-grip levels and road conditions - and there is no statistically significant advantage in terms of expected stopping distance for PCCB's vs. Steel Brakes in non-brake-fade conditions and equivilent tires - tire grip and ABS governs your maximum deceleration (unless your brakes "suck" or are in "fade") - so for the same tires and same road surface stoping distance is the same for steel and PCCB's…
They are a great choice - but all Porsche brakes are excellent and all brakes for all vehicle's pass the following "tourture" test from Porsche as part of vehicle development…see the relevant passage from Porsche regarding the testing they do for _ALL_ brake systems on _ALL_ Porsche vehicle's…
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a28915025/porsche-taycan-huge-brakes/
what is interesting about the quote above is this test applies to _ALL_ vehicles and _ALL_ Porsche brakes - so their steel brakes pass the same test…so unless you're coming to full stop from 80% of top speed 25 times in a row with no pause between "trials" - you should be fine with normal Steel Brakes.
I love my PCCB's - but I can speak from experience that their most significant benefit is their outstanding fade-resistance - and I can also speak from experience that brake fade is _NOT_ an issue for virtually any Porsche brake system off-track, but I can get Porsche's steel brakes on my GT3 to fade after about 25 minutes on track at Laguna Seca - but that sort of usage is hard to imagine in any street driving scenarios.
this topic has been covered a lot - there is no definitive "conclusion" - but if you're taking sides - my position:
- they can be beneficial on track car due to lighter weight and excellent thermal fade resistance
- they are super super expensive _IF_ when you need to replace rotors
- they are mostly a cosmetic choice for any street car that will not be tracked
it is however 100% crystal clear the absolute cheapest opportunity to get PCCB's is with a factory order - adding them later is super expensive and mostly impractical.
and I must say regardless of any meaningful advantage in normal use - there is no question they are best brakes money can buy - and they are excellent with few if any downsides other than cost - but as to if they are "better" in meaningful way for a street car - that's less clear.
my $0.02
-how-the-taycan-gets-by-without-a-larger-brake-system—thanks-to-recuperation.14515/page-4#post-220012![Porsche Cayenne EV [FAQ] - PCCB Option - Since it's bound to come up - my thoughts on PCCB's… IMG_0052](data:image/svg+xml;charset=utf-8,%3Csvg xmlns%3D'http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg' width='758' height='572' viewBox%3D'0 0 758 572'%2F%3E)